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Not the slightest interest in it personally. But does fusion require any special gear? I mean, given it's been around for nearly fifty years, there should be some benchmarks, combined to all of today's amazing new gear, it should be pretty straightforward.
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04-01-2018 03:54 AM
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In a nutshell, no.
Originally Posted by m_d
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Robben Ford was my true ticket into the realm of fusion. I heard him on tour (with the fledgling Yellowjackets) when Inside Story first came out... blew me away. At the time, I was growing out of my Allman Brothers/ Tower of Power/ Hendrix/ Santana fascinations and listening to Metheny, Benson and Montgomery. The energy and taste that Robben brought forth was (and still is) so damn inspiring and joyous. Those solos from that old Casino Lights/Montreux gig are timeless in their creativity. One take, international audience, likely some pressure. And wow.
Then came Holdsworth, the first example of a guitarist that I couldn’t take apart harmonically and technically, without major effort. (Not that I can play nearly as well as Benson, Ford, Wes, etc, but I have a good ear and can figure out what they are doing, while still holding huge admiration for their skill and taste.) All I could do with Holdsworth was sit back and enjoy, knowing that he had changed things so far out of my reach that I could only wonder at his voice and creativity and try not to feel like giving up.
Tim Miller is the most logical extension of Holdsworth’s work, harmonically and technically, with a depth of intellectual understanding that I kind of doubt Allan had, genius though he was. I really dig Miller’s playing, and for those of you who don’t know, he has a great library of lessons online that are simply wonderful in their execution and simplification of complex ideas and habit breaking ideas. I was devastated when Allan died, but feel like we have Tim to carry that adventure forward as well as anyone could.
Clearly there are examples of fusion that haven’t weathered well to my mind, including the old Return to Forever catalog, and I think what makes a difference in longevity is the quality of the writing. All of Holdsworth’s stuff is endlessly fascinating to me, as is most of the Yellowjackets catalog, but old Mahvishnu doesn’t really do it for me any more, nor do most of the extended one or two chord shredfests made popular by Mike Varney et al, in spite of some amazing playing. Great tunes make for timeless music, but great soloing can sometimes just become an exercise in technique. Put both together, and... well, that’s the stuff to aspire to.
I have lots of gear, and it’s true, you can play fusion on anything or practically nothing, but the “fusion” gear I can’t bring myself to give up are my two Yamaha Magic Stomps, with the Holdsworth derived multi-tap delays. Although I never plug them in anymore, there’s no easy way to get that in the real world right now, so for historical purposes, I can’t let them go.
So much good music everywhere. The good stuff lives on, and bright young players like Miller, Altura and others are applying a stronger education with good ears and raising the bar. Fusion rules, dudes! But so does post bop, brazilian, british blues and chicken-pickin-shredmania. How can anyone complain, when there’s so much great stuff to listen to?
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Swing? You're right, that's not a focus of most fusion hence it isn't too common, although not non-existent either. But there is a crap-ton of groove in fusion. You may not be listening to the right stuff. After 50 years, fusion casts a wide net.
Weather Report had this bass player, Jaco something, that dude was pretty groovy. A few other bass and drum gods who grace fusion tracks are Marcus Miller, Dave Weckl, Lenny White, Stanley Clarke, Peter Erskine, Steve Gadd, Alphonse Mouzon, Victor Bailey, Carlos Benavent, Omar Hakim, Alex Acuña, Dennis Chambers, I mean the list does go on for a LONG time. There is a ton of fusion that pulls deeply from the funk. You do have to go back to the 70's, 80's, and early 90's though.Last edited by rpguitar; 04-01-2018 at 05:01 PM.
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“In view of his subsequent, later and up today production I regard George Benson as a Father of Fusion, Father Fusionist or Father Fuser,whichever –if any- might be correct English, and the greatest of them all.”
Mmmmmm...
( And not as in “Mmmmmm ... donuts.” More as in “Mmmmmm ... I don’t think so.” Soul-jazz. Wrong fusion.
Last edited by Bach5G; 04-01-2018 at 03:23 PM.
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I concur. Originally Posted by rpguitar
In the early days, this new genre was called "Jazz Rock", as it was the ""fusion" of those styles; the tonal sophistication of Jazz harmony and the raw energy of Rock playing. But it was when it became "groove-centered", that it earned due attention in the FM radio waves and got played in both mainstream and Jazz radio stations.
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Compare Head Hunters (synth solo notwithstanding) with any of the RTF dreck. Chameleon still turns up in dance music 40 years later. (RTF is to groove what Scientology is to religion
) One of my faves from that period was Boogie Woogie Waltz off of WR’s second album (1973) although conspicuously light on guitar. All groove.
My recollection is that guitar-oriented fusion ran dry pretty fast. By the second half of the 70s, a lot of the creativity was finished. I recall albums by Jean Luc Ponty, John Abercrombie, and Billie Cobham that weren’t very good (IMHO). I did like Tom Scott’s LA Express (with a young R Ford) and there was a kid out of Berklee named Metheny who was supposed to be pretty good.
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I like Star People by Miles Davis (1983):
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Surprised to not see Larry Carlton or Stanley Clarke mentioned yet. After I discovered Beck and Steely Dan, those two were my gateway drugs.
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Just because something is a swing feel doesn't mean it grooves. A lot of great modern jazz is not necessarily swing feel but it grooves. I think it's important for the music to evolve with the times.
This is old school but tell me this doesn't groove like a motherf*cker?!?
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One of my all time favorite band - Casiopea - from Japan...
Two video, same song, one in 1979, 2nd one in 2015
Gear wise, Issei Noro (Guitarist) has his own signature model.
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Bryan Baker shredding with Steps Ahead on his obamacaster.
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Corea last year in BA with guitarist Loueke:
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Not sure if this is more fusion or post rock/modern prog metal ... lots of cross over between the two if you ask me
But I have been enjoying it ... it has much Holdsworth and Shawn Lane influence to my ears
Plini
Also these guys, Polyphia, are doing some serious guitar based music ... similar Holdsworth and Lane influences to my ears
I'm also enjoying a band called The Contortionist ... definitely fusion influence, but they go deeper into the prog metal thing ... with even some cookie monster vocals, especially the older stuff
These bands are all younger guys ... 30s at the most .. which gives me hope for great guitar music yet to come
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i read an article by chick corea where he admitted that the reason he started his fusion band was to reach *PEOPLE*. I think it's important to connect with people. Playing "jazz" during happy hour as background music is not fulfilling. Playing a great solo and having nobody clap is not reaching people. I did that for years and i'm very hesitant to take gigs like that anymore. I see nothing wrong with playing music that reaches people. Jazz does not mean playing show tunes written in the '40s on an archtop with heavy strings.
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Nothing wrong with playing great tunes from the 1940s, though I fully agree with you. It is no coincidence that younger players often use smaller guitars having more bite. Julian Lage's most recent cd is a great testimony of that. Listening to his telecaster makes me feel happy.
Also interesting is the fusion with oriental music. Listen to people like Anouar Brahem, Erik Truffaz, etc.
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Chick’s first shot at reaching PEOPLE was the Latin version of RTF. After he heard the MO, he and Stanley quickly retooled and brought out the fusion version and Hymn/7th Gal. I don’t think it’s unfair to say that RTF was a Scientology worship band. The titles - Hymn etc., Where Have I Known You Before, etc - are straight out of L Ron Hubbard. The aim of reaching PEOPLE was to spread the faith.
That doesn’t necessarily mean the [RTF] music isn’t any good, but, for me, as much as I liked some of it, I recognized it as formulaic and derivative and maybe just a little bit cynical.
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I don't agree at all that it was formulaic. Chick is a genius writer and improviser and his fusion of spanish rhythms, pentatonics, 4ths and inside/outside playing is still copied and studied in jazz schools and individually some 40 years later.
And derivative? What was it derived from? Who was doing anything like that back then?
Originally Posted by Bach5G
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Derivative?
The MO had been around since 1971 when 7th Galaxy came out in 1973. JM was onto Birds of Fire (released March 1973) when Galaxy came out (October 1973). Birds sounds like fusion common practice period from a 2018 perspective. IMF and Birds have, in my opinion, aged quite well. No Mystery not so much.
Chick is studied at jazz music schools? I expect so but I’d be surprised if the fusion phase is on the final.
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Originally Posted by jzucker
First, I completely agree that it's important to reach people. IMO, that's really the point of music - it's a conversation between musician and audience. One can debate whether one should change one's music to reach an audience, or change one's audience to one the music reaches, but playing to an empty, unresponsive room is not where it's at.
That aside, have you ever checked out Scott Henderson's website/message board? The topic of Chick Corea pops up there pretty often, and Henderson often unloads on his electric (elektric) music. He thinks it's shallow, cynical, commercial pap driven by Scientology's worship of money. Certainly there have been points in time when Corea's music was both artistically deep and popular. But Henderson says Corea's electric music (post fairly early RTF) is pretty cynical. Obviously, not something I can assess personally, but he dishes some inside dirt to support his view.
John
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I was not aware of Mr. Henderson’s views. Interesting.
I was a big CC fan but lost the faith when leprechauns, knights and the Phrygian mode began to overwhelm the music.
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I couldn't disagree more. I think the no mystery album is absolutely classic and tunes like 500 miles high, spain, captain marvel, captain senora mouse are still performed as "standards" even today. I find myself still listening to that album (despite Clark's rushing on Spain) whereas I can only listen to birds of fire when I'm extremely nostalgic.
I doubt chick derived anything from mahavishnu other than the generic concept of fusing jazz and rock.
Also, the level of musicianship in chick's band was an order of magnitude higher than mahavishnu although Billy Cobham is a monster.
Originally Posted by Bach5G
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