1976 Gibson Johnny Smith

**vinnyv1k** · 12-02-2016, 03:35 PM

SS frets on a multi ply bound neck requires great skill and caution. On a strat it is a different story. I think a lot of Luthiers charge a lot because they don't like working with SS on high end guitars. Pretty hard stuff to even bend let alone file and crown. It eats up their tools too.

**QAman** · 12-02-2016, 03:51 PM

To Vinnies earlier point - when you get a guitar back from Nori there is not a scratch anywhere . He did my Trenier Classic with wood binding and you would never even know the frets were replaced . The guitar sounded better after his fret job. Every fret was seated perfectly , fret plane dead straight, crowning perfect and nut cut about .002 clearance at first fret ( when pressing down on second fret). I did get a discount through Trenier - Norio is not cheap -but knowing you can trust him with your guitar - adds value as far as I'm concerned. No anxiety ! Norio use to work with Roger Sadowsky.

I had Ian at Larkstreet recently level and recrown a guitar and it was done in an expert manner - no issues . Ian spent 20 years at Breedllove doing fret work - so he knows his stuff as well - and works on many different vintage instruments.

**Max405** · 12-02-2016, 04:16 PM

My biggest gripe was the wait.
I called 7 guys between last night and this morning.

The guy I am going with is Phil D'Angelo. His price is $400. But he also has to make me a new bone nut for $95 because I am seeking higher frets. My nut would be too low. He will use whatever frets that I specify. I haven't given him a specification for the frets, but they will be something close to .106 wide by .040 high.

Phil will absolutely do Stainless if I wanted him to. His price, $700. And he suggested that I don't go with Stainless because he feels it will adversely affect the sound of the GJS. 4 other luthiers told me that too. The fact of the matter is, I don't think I've actually bent a note in 15 years. And I don't intend to deviate from my Nickel TI's so Stainless is probably overkill anyway. Phil learned from Tommy Doyle and promised me his frets will be polished just as good as Tommy's frets were.

I checked out his shop and he keeps a pristine work environment. He changes the mat under the guitar frequently.

But the best part is..

Phil told me his backlog is about 5 weeks. However, he slotted me on his schedule and he will be calling me a week before so I could drop off the guitar. Then I pick it up a week later. He totally understands and respects the fact that I don't want to drop my baby off and be without it for 5 weeks. This also gives me time to chicken out..

So we will see what happens.

**Max405** · 12-02-2016, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by QAman

To Vinnies earlier point - when you get a guitar back from Nori there is not a scratch anywhere . He did my Trenier Classic with wood binding and you would never even know the frets were replaced . The guitar sounded better after his fret job. Every fret was seated perfectly , fret plane dead straight, crowning perfect and nut cut about .002 clearance at first fret ( when pressing down on second fret). I did get a discount through Trenier - Norio is not cheap -but knowing you can trust him with your guitar - adds value as far as I'm concerned. No anxiety ! Norio use to work with Roger Sadowsky.
I had Ian at Larkstreet recently level and recrown a guitar and it was done in an expert manner - no issues . Ian spent 20 years at Breedllove doing fret work - so he knows his stuff as well - and works on many different vintage instruments.

QA, Thanks buddy. I wasn't too thrilled after my conversation with Buzz. He told me they never put low frets on a Johnny Smith ever. I told him it was a 1976 and he said, "it doesn't matter, Either the frets were changed or they've been filed down to nothing.."
That's OK, I was skeptical about getting my frets changed by someone named "BUZZ" anyway..

JD.

**vinnyv1k** · 12-02-2016, 04:29 PM

Back to JD.....he is picky like me. He won't tolerate scratches, dings, file marks, or lacquer chips from a fret job on his beloved mint JS. Like I said paying a little extra for the best guy is worth it. He doesn't have to go with SS frets but should use the best guy around regardless of the wait. He will never find another dead mint JS.
The guy he has been using can't even make a pickguard without cracking it. Yes his guy is fast. I would rather wait for perfection my shelf. He has other axes to see him through the 4-6 weeks.

**Hammertone** · 12-02-2016, 04:49 PM

The last SS refret I had done was @two years ago, cost me less than $500 and was done by one of the best archtop guitar builders in North America, working out of one of the best repair shops in North America. There was an upcharge of $100 for SS compared to standard frets. The guitar was a handbuilt archtop guitar with a list price of over $10,000 and no shortage of neck binding, and the quality of the work was excellent.

Frank Ford's rate of $400 for standard frets seems very much in line with what other skilled repairpeople charge as I mentioned above. I'm certainly not suggesting that you shouldn't use Frank Ford's or Norio Inai's services, nor am I suggesting that they charge too much. We live in a society where one is free to get one's refrets done as one chooses.

I am suggesting that charging $800 for a fret job with SS frets does not necessarily put the quality of the finished product above that of other skilled repairpeople who charge less, based on your statement "You want the best of the best that is the price."

**QAman** · 12-02-2016, 04:57 PM

Max405,
Give Norio a call and tell him you were referred by myself (through Trenier ) and Larry W, maybe you will get a discount .

It's a phone call - you have nothing to lose.

**vinnyv1k** · 12-02-2016, 05:33 PM

Hammertone, sorry if I sounded a bit defensive. Frank has been my guy for 40 years. He is like a family member to me and yes his prices are high.

He also helped me win my lawsuit against UPS.

**Dennis D** · 12-02-2016, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by QAman

Not sure Dennis- it's worth giving him a call. My friend , vintage guitar dealer Larry Wexer uses Norio exclusively for all fret work.

I remember asking one of the go-to guys here - Denny Rauen, when I needed frets on my L-4CES......for oem duplicate frets, he was about that low number discussed here ( or less ) and 3-4 weeks....but then when we talked about the binding over the ends, the price doubled and wait time became 3 months.......not sure if I can recall if the orig. binding could be saved - -or if it's too costly to even try to save it....it sounded to me like he'd been there & done that and found out it's better to do the frets & then replace the binding with new..........

......all in all, I fought those fret over the original binding ends almost every winter........we did end up Super-gluing them and that worked the best......

...but fwiw, if it were me, for a refret, I would sure plan on new binding over the ends, and allow for the time it'd take.......

...good luck !!

**Dennis D** · 12-02-2016, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by Greentone

If you study this picture carefully you will discover that Johnny Smith had this guitar refretted with the nibs sawed off. Goes with the territory when you play a guitar a lot.

.....just curious - what do you mean by ' sawed off ' ?.......

**JazzNote** · 12-02-2016, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by Max405

QA, Thanks buddy. I wasn't too thrilled after my conversation with Buzz. He told me they never put low frets on a Johnny Smith ever. I told him it was a 1976 and he said, "it doesn't matter, Either the frets were changed or they've been filed down to nothing.."
That's OK, I was skeptical about getting my frets changed by someone named "BUZZ" anyway..

JD.

Good one Joe hahaha,

I once considered buying a blonde GJS from him. He answered my question if it had any crack or overspray with a clear no. When one of our expert-members here went there to check the guitar he found a crack on the back and was convinced that there had been some overspray. Overseeing this could have been ignorance too ......

**Max405** · 12-02-2016, 11:36 PM

Yeah, Buzz is just trying to sell guitars.

i am going to sleep in this fret job thing for a couple of weeks.

As always you guys are the best. I do appreciate very much.

JD

**Hammertone** · 12-03-2016, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by Max405

...That's OK, I was skeptical about getting my frets changed by someone named "BUZZ" anyway..JD.

I know an amp repair guy named Buzzy. In fact, my Polytone 104 amp saved his life while it was in his shop awaiting service. Something about a wooden building, a silent electrical fire spreading on the floor, an amp that blocked the fire and stopped it from spreading any further, and about how Polytones don't burn so much as melt. Let's just say that he owes me bigtime.

**Max405** · 12-03-2016, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Greentone

If you study this picture carefully you will discover that Johnny Smith had this guitar refretted with the nibs sawed off. Goes with the territory when you play a guitar a lot.
Attachment 37868

Thanks for pointing that out Greentone.
The kicker for me was seeing George Bensons JS with the larger frets. Mainly because his JS was a similar year to my and Jazznotes guitar. I realize these pros have techs that transform their guitars into exactly what they are comfortable with. And that's just the point. I play a lot of their stuff and I struggle playing it with the low frets, especially after getting use to playing my other guitars, particularly the Tal and the 175.
God, I love that picture of Johnny.

**vinnyv1k** · 12-03-2016, 01:40 PM

I have a jacket like that. I just need a JS guitar and the chops to go with it... :-)

**Max405** · 12-03-2016, 03:22 PM

And you were the same gentle guy he was.
JD

**vinnyv1k** · 12-03-2016, 03:26 PM

We were both born on June 25.

**Blues Fuse** · 12-03-2016, 03:47 PM

"Vintage Guitar" magazine had an interview with George Benson back in 2010 in which he detailed his acquisition of his GJS. George was living in the Bronx at the time and a young man showed up at his house carrying a guitar case. He had been told that George might like to see this guitar. It was essentially a brand new GJS that he was trying to sell. George told him he wasn't sure he needed another guitar because he already had a closet full of guitars. He offered the guy $550 for it. SOLD. It was $50 more than they offered him down at Manny's. A new GJS was about a thousand bucks back then. As he was preparing to fly to L.A. to record "Breezin" he made a last minute decision to take the GJS with him. He really hadn't spent anytime playing it prior to that.