1976 Gibson Johnny Smith

**Max405** · 11-29-2016, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by wintermoon

"The D'Angelico Excel surprised me with the "beauty" of its sound, but I never played it as much as I should have, because I was afraid to ruin it.."

?

Moon, Dead serious buddy. I stared at that guitar for hours almost every day. I kept it in a glass case. I played it in the same manner that I would open a bottle of 300 yr old Cognac and take a sip.. It was a cherished possession.

**Max405** · 11-29-2016, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by QAman

Hey Max405,
Glad you and Jazznote are enjoying your GJS's - and thanks for the kind words.

Today - I'm headed over to see my good friend John Monteleone to play some new grand piano guitars. One day you need to swing by and I'll take you over to meet John- his instruments will blow your mind.

Aww, you lucky dog..
Make sure you bring a box of Pignoli cookies with you.
JD

**skykomishone** · 11-29-2016, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by JazzNote

After all i found some time to do a demo of the 76 Johnny Smith. , ..... getting used to the Johnny until i finally got a result which isn't to "shameful".

Excusez-moi, s'il vous plaît, JazzNote,

The demo is exquisite! And, your GJS is incredible. That is really nice. Some day, I'm going to find one of these myself.
Happy NGD to you, mon ami.

Cheers,

S

**Stringswinger** · 11-29-2016, 12:41 PM

Jazznote, for years I went back and forth between Fender and Polytone amps (I still own a Fender and a Polytone in my arsenal ). Once I tried the RE/Clarus combo, my search for the perfect jazz amp was over as well. I use the Clarus2 with a Stealth10ER on about 80 percent of my gigs.

**JazzNote** · 11-30-2016, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Max405

JazzNote,
It always amazes me how different people have different opinions of guitars.
The way I feel about my Gibson Johnny Smith is it is by far the most "touch sensitive" guitar I've ever played. I enjoy playing it with a soft touch. But when I pluck octaves firmly, I can hear the aggressiveness, almost overdriven notes that George Benson got out of his on the Breezin album, even on the live version of, "Ode To A Kudu". The only thing I can equate it to is the sound of a grand Piano or even a Fender Rhodes. You can get anything you want out of it. I've never bought something that I really wanted before that has matched or exceeded my expectations like the Gibson Johnny Smith. The D'Angelico Excel surprised me with the "beauty" of its sound, but I never played it as much as I should have, because I was afraid to ruin it..
I am glad you like yours too. It is a beautiful guitar, without a doubt.
Thank you QAMan for helping us out. If I was a professional athlete, I'd beg for you to be my agent.

JD

Joe, i suspect that the guitars ARE different although, they probably have basic identical characteristics. The 74 GJS i once owned for a very short period (the one with the crack under the PU) was different from my 76. It is also possible that because of the change of scale length i need to focus more on the instrument when playing, than with my L5 which allows me to just focus on just the music.

My GJS also has this aggressiveness you are talking about. I was surprised myself that for the demo i could tame it, but i suspect that for me this is only possible after playing it for a day at least, not switching fourth and back from the 25.5 scale to the 25. So far i rarely had the chance to play it for more than a few hours without needing to switch to other guitars for some upcoming gig or whatever.

QAman has already helped me to acquire a gorgeous Lee Ritenour signature early this year. This too is a great instrument. Interestingly i just noticed the other day that the pickup on this guitar equals the one one my JS in terms of output and projects the sound of the LR equally well, but in a much darker fashion as the LR itself sounds very dark.

I'm yet to experience the thrill of playing a real DA, not sure if this will ever happen as they are VERY rare here. I'm glad your decision to sell yours and buy the GJS proved to be the right thing to do.

**Max405** · 11-30-2016, 05:37 PM

JazzNote,
Eventually (not now) I will change the frets to Medium Jumbo's. I suspect that will make my Johnny feel very much like my Tal and the L5's I've owned, which I would be very happy with.
You know the low frets on my Johnny make the TI-12's I have on the guitar feel like Ernie ball super slinky 9's. Do you have the same experience?

**vinnyv1k** · 11-30-2016, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Max405

JazzNote,
Eventually (not now) I will change the frets to Medium Jumbo's. I suspect that will make my Johnny feel very much like my Tal and the L5's I've owned, which I would be very happy with.
You know the low frets on my Johnny make the TI-12's I have on the guitar feel like Ernie ball super slinky 9's. Do you have the same experience?

May I suggest a quick fix for low frets. Put on a set of GB TI 14-55 flats. Replace the 14 & 18 E & B with a Elixir 12 & 15 or 16. My 175 has kinda low frets. I did this and it made a world of difference in tone, sustain, and playability.
Night and day actually over 12-50 or 13-53 and still plays like butter.

**skiboyny** · 11-30-2016, 07:44 PM

I have the same experience but I don't think it has much to do with the low frets. Every Johnny I've ever played was much like this. I always thought it to be a combination of scale, and peg head. Some of the earlier ones had more of a Medium Jumbo fret, still great players. Part of the magic of the GJS. Mine is getting pretty near needing a fret job I just haven't been able to bring myself to getting it done. A little bit of plinking on some of the higher frets and I just don't think there is enough fret to withstand a leveling. If I get it done I will go to a Medium Jumbo. I feel like they will let the guitar ring out better. I will surely keep you posted...

Originally Posted by Max405

JazzNote,
Eventually (not now) I will change the frets to Medium Jumbo's. I suspect that will make my Johnny feel very much like my Tal and the L5's I've owned, which I would be very happy with.
You know the low frets on my Johnny make the TI-12's I have on the guitar feel like Ernie ball super slinky 9's. Do you have the same experience?

**vinnyv1k** · 11-30-2016, 10:09 PM

Fret jobs on a prized axe can be a bit stressful to do. Almost always the nut will need to be replaced also. My advise is to pay top dollar and seek out the best luthier in your hood.
Nothing better than nice jumbo/medium frets polished with a perfect crown.
It is like getting new tires, brakes, struts, and alignment on your car. You will be cruising on that fretboard.

**JazzNote** · 11-30-2016, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by Max405

JazzNote,
Eventually (not now) I will change the frets to Medium Jumbo's. I suspect that will make my Johnny feel very much like my Tal and the L5's I've owned, which I would be very happy with.
You know the low frets on my Johnny make the TI-12's I have on the guitar feel like Ernie ball super slinky 9's. Do you have the same experience?

As far as i'm concerned, the ease of playing seems to be connected to the neck profile as much as to the low and wide frets. I will keep the original frets as long as possible. So far i've played the guitar at home only and it will be when i take it to its first gig that i can confirm how close it fits my playing intuition. So far i know that it projects very well and i believe that i won't need to change anything, just need to get used to switching between the different scale lengths when alternating with my other guitars.

**QAman** · 11-30-2016, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

Fret jobs on a prized axe can be a bit stressful to do. Almost always the nut will need to be replaced also. My advise is to pay top dollar and seek out the best luthier in your hood.
Nothing better than nice jumbo/medium frets polished with a perfect crown.
It is like getting new tires, brakes, struts, and alignment on your car. You will be cruising on that fretboard.

Norio Imai in NYC ! Precision work - fret plane laser straight - nut cut perfect. Pricey , but well worth it. He did my 35' DA snakehead and a Trenier Classic that I wore out frets ( soft wire) in 1 yr.

**vinnyv1k** · 12-01-2016, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

May I suggest a quick fix for low frets. Put on a set of GB TI 14-55 flats. Replace the 14 & 18 E & B with a Elixir 12 & 15 or 16. My 175 has kinda low frets. I did this and it made a world of difference in tone, sustain, and playability.
Night and day actually over 12-50 or 13-53 and still plays like butter.

Big Joe,

I think I may take back this advice for you. The heavy gauge strings has made my 175 sound darker which I like but I know you like a brighter sound. You will have more tone but at least for me it is a much darker sound though I put them on a laminate. I could be talking apples and oranges. I really don't know how they would sound on a JS.
I have always kind of followed Jimmy D's advice. Don't be putting any hairs on my guitar.

**vinnyv1k** · 12-01-2016, 11:18 AM

Don't use Stew Mac frets. Too soft.

**JazzNote** · 12-01-2016, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

Big Joe,

I think I may take back this advice for you. The heavy gauge strings has made my 175 sound darker which I like but I know you like a brighter sound. You will have more tone but at least for me it is a much darker sound though I put them on a laminate. I could be talking apples and oranges. I really don't know how they would sound on a JS.
I have always kind of followed Jimmy D's advice. Don't be putting any hairs on my guitar.

Vinnie now you make me curious. I've been using TI swings for long, never tried TI GB flatwounds. What is the difference in terms of sound (compared to the same gauge)?

**Max405** · 12-01-2016, 12:16 PM

I played my JS last night after not playing it for 10 days. God what a wonderful Guitar it is. I've been playing the 175 alot.
There is no question, the lower frets make it considerably more difficult to hit every note. Its a timing thing that is difficult to learn and then relearn. When I 1st bought the guitar, I thought it would be something I would get use to. Well I was partially right. I can definitely get use to it if that's the only guitar I play. But I want to play my other guitars a lot of the time too. So because I am not capable of adapting so easily, I will no doubt get the Johnny Smith refretted. And I will use the gentleman that QAMan turned me on to. The master fret guy who works for Lark Street Music. His name escapes me. $450. 3-4 week turnaround.

On the plus side, when you don't play a guitar like this for a while and then you pick it up, you immediately gain an appreciation for its sound. My god this guitar has a great sound. They are all unique for sure, but this guitar sounds amazing. An in typical Gibson fashion, after 10 days of pretty radical temperature fluctuations around here, the guitar is still perfectly in tune. Good I love this thing..

I took a real close look at the pic's of George Bensons 70's JS, that was on display in an Arizona museum. His frets were no doubt changed out for higher frets.

1976 Gibson Johnny Smith-fretsgeorgebensonsgibson-jpg

1976 Gibson Johnny Smith-fretsgeorgebensonsgibson-jpg

**vinnyv1k** · 12-01-2016, 01:56 PM

JazzNote, I always felt the GB's sounded warmer especially on my L5's. A lot of cats here say they sound brighter so I can't give you a honest answer. I love how they sound on my Blonde L5. Are they worth the extra money.... ???
If you lived in the states I would send you a set to try. IMO I bet they would be a dream on a JS.
They sure sounded great when I had them on Patrick's Unity with a BJB. I don't like the light gauge GB's just the .055 set.

**JazzNote** · 12-01-2016, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Max405

There is no question, the lower frets make it considerably more difficult to hit every note. Its a timing thing that is difficult to learn and then relearn. When I 1st bought the guitar, I thought it would be something I would get use to. Well I was partially right. I can definitely get use to it if that's the only guitar I play. But I want to play my other guitars a lot of the time too.
I took a real close look at the pic's of George Bensons 70's JS, that was on display in an Arizona museum. His frets were no doubt changed out for higher frets.

Joe, since i'm in the same boat i'm very glad you pointed this out. Probably it is this timing thing you mention which i perceive as "this guitar needs conviction to be played". It's very easy to "noodle around" on it, but to really make some "valid musical statements" it requires a certain concentration on the accuracy of timing until one is used to these frets.

About GB's higher frets on the JS, i would be most curious when the fret change happened. Did he do it soon or only after the frets had been played down .... .

**vinnyv1k** · 12-01-2016, 02:06 PM

I used to go see GB quite a bit when he was playing that guitar. I am sure he changed the frets immediately like everyone else did in the 70's. Check out any famous jazz guitarist on YouTube and you will see big frets. It's just too hard to play good with very low frets. Fast single line yes but chord melody forget it.

**Max405** · 12-01-2016, 02:28 PM

Vin, You've been saying this long before I even took delivery of the guitar and you were right. Sorry I ever doubted you.

Are the Jescar frets as hard as Stainless steel? Hopefully they will take a polish like stainless steel. My best fret ever was the stainless steel frets that were on my old JP20. That guitar was refretted by Tommy Doyle. I can see why he is considered a legend. They were perfect and they were polished like diamonds. I swear the high polish made that guitar sound and play better. Best fret ever..
JD

**Max405** · 12-01-2016, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by JazzNote

About GB's higher frets on the JS, i would be most curious when the fret change happened. Did he do it soon or only after the frets had been played down .... .

Next time I see him, I'll ask him. He usually pops in around Christmas time..

**Stringswinger** · 12-01-2016, 02:32 PM

The EVO frets are gold colored. Sorry, that does not work for me. Also, they do not last as long as Stainless (though they last way longer than nickel frets to be sure). The best frets I ever played were stainless medium jumbos. Any fret jobs I have done will be done with those. I played a friends guitar that was refretted with Stainless frets, and to my mind, the tone was the same. The only thing that changed was the playability. And that was for the better.

**vinnyv1k** · 12-01-2016, 03:31 PM

Nothing beats Stainless. When polished they look just like chrome. Me and Marco are Harley guys so we have a passion for chrome. Chrome don't get you home but it sure looks nice.
Installing stainless frets is difficult because they are so hard. Very hard to bend to neck radius. Labor wise it will cost much more but worth every penny IMO. The stainless frets will outlast you for sure.

The EVO frets are very good also. Almost as hard but as Marco pointed out gold in color. May look good with your gold hardware ?

**JazzNote** · 12-01-2016, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Max405

Next time I see him, I'll ask him. He usually pops in around Christmas time..

can you tell him to come over here too?

**Max405** · 12-01-2016, 03:59 PM

To the brain trust.. How is Dunlop 6130 material, .044 high, .106 wide? I just spoke to Mark Simon who I know pretty well and he will do my frets as well as 3 little drop fills on my baby. That is what he uses..
JD