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i'd stay away from the weber. The commonwealth isn't a jbl clone. This is their jbl clone. i once bought a weber california and it was absolutely horrid. Sounded like a cocked wah pedal. A guitar repairman friend of mine who is also a great blues player heard it. We both figured that the people raving about it must not have ever played through a K-120 or D-120 cuz it was *WAY* off. Maybe it was just a single bad speaker ? But I used to go over to Dr Z's place (20 minutes from me) and I used to see weber speakers on the floor of his place with missing magnets. They would just come loose during shipping. Never saw that in my life with another speaker...
http://www.eminence.com/2011/05/emin...o-cheer-about/Last edited by jzucker; 02-19-2014 at 09:36 PM.
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02-19-2014 09:33 PM
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I just got an EV Force 15 that was not good (which I knew) and is being repaired by a friend. I can report back when I have it but I have two other EVs (10 and 12) and love them for jazz... they should be perfect for a flat amp like the ampeg. The Force is not very expensive usually.
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what's he reconing it with?
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Old speakers are fine, as are properly done re-cones, IMO.
Originally Posted by Patrick2
I use both the JBL K130 (same speaker as the D-130, but newer, usually less costly because many folks don't know that it is the same thing or are preoccupied with orange or grey paint) as well as the Altec 418 (or the higher-rated 418-H). Both are hi-efficiency, wide-range AlNiCo speakers that work great for guitar as well as upright bass, IMO.
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The problem was on the coil, not the cone. He works mainly in the hifi area and has been repairing speakers for more than 30 years... he knew the speaker and had worked with it in the past and said it was easy to fix and it will be like new.
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EVs are great for jazz as well IMO. But, boy, they are heavy, even compared to JBLs and Altecs.
I use an old 12" SRO (essentially an EVM-L) occasionally in one of my old Ampegs when I want to make it even heavier.
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I would love to try JBLs and Altecs... but I live in Portugal and I can consider myself lucky enough to have a 10 Force and a 15 Force! One day who knows...
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Wouldn't there be all sorts of super-cool older AlNiCo speakers in Europe, from various manufacturers?
I know more about the British ones, but there must be plenty of others:
~ Celestion
~ Goodmans
~ Philips
~ SABA
~ Tannoy
~ Wharfdale
etc.
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I don't like Celestions... never heard of the others! One day I'll check them, for now I am happy with the EVs!
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Yes, but it's rare to find old brit AlNiCos still viable. Dunno about Euro ones, but Brit AlNiCos from that era sometimes come in 5 and 15 ohm flavours, which can offer a slight dilemma if mating them with 8 ohm outputs in newer one 12 combos. Originally Posted by Hammertone
Maybe that's why it's rare to find them still viable..
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I've saved myself . . . from myself. Many times I've posted here that I really didn't want to become one of those who chase tone to a point of frustration. Nothing against them or what they do. That's their business. I just didn't want to become that. After hearing my newly built Super Golden Eagle . . with a KA Rhythm Chief 1100 clone played through a decent rig with a 15" speaker . . I just felt like I had to have one. Last night, I once again played almost all of my arch tops through my Ferner Pro Reverb. Pretty much came to the conclusion that there's really no need for anything more. It's fine as it is.
Sincere thanks to Jack, Stephen, and all others for the recommendations on amps and speakers. But, I'm good with what I've got.
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So, Watt, as measure of power is somehow changing own properties (can a unit of measure have property?) depending of the way it was produced?
Cool for you experienced cats but please don't mislead young people who may be reading this with some trust to elders, not seeing all the various marketing strategies and sales plugs within.
There were couple of good posts, those that went into correlation btw speaker sensitivity, room size and amp power. Some of those were completely wrong in calculations, but right on principles.
Ok. that's it.
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I agree w/ Jack Z on Weber California speakers. I had a 15" version in a small Mesa/Boogie cab, and nothing like a real JBL 15" at all. In fact it compressed way to early and wouldn't handle even 60 watts clean. Have you tried any Jensen Neo 15" speakers at all? They aren't like JBL or EV but they are light weight and rated at either 150watts or 300 watts.
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It never ends though...now that I'm completely happy with my tone...I find myself thinking about chasing specs. Originally Posted by Patrick2
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I agree with the general consensus regarding tube versus solid state power requirements as well as comparative speaker size as relates to volume capability. No need to reiterate what's already been said.
I've owned the following high-end speakers over the years:
EV SRO 12";
Altec 817-8H 12";
JBL K-120 12";
JBL K-130 15".
I've also owned 2 Weber California's:
10" with paper dome;
12" with paper dome.
Despite the way they're marketed, they don't sound like a JBL or anything else from the above list. But I do like the way they sound. The one's I've had have been very neutral - tight bass, smooth but moderately punchy mids, and full but clear trebles. They didn't sound nasal like a cocked wah-wah pedal, and they didn't fall apart. But they didn't really sound much like JBLs either.
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Good point - I had a wonderful old Ditton/Celestion 18" rated at 60 watts into 15 ohms - I figured I'd just round it to 16.. A 5 ohm rating? Round it to 4 ohm? I'm used to old Ampegs that run 4/8/16 ohm loads (so do the Koch amps I use), so I didn't really think of this. Originally Posted by Franz 1997
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Ferner Pro Reverb is a great amp. Old Pros used to come with 15" speakers. Just an idea: why not get a nice 1x15" cab that matches the Fender visually and in terms of whatever speaker rating is most appropriate. That way, you can run the amp with either the existing 2x12" configuration, the 15" cab, or both? You could put the amp on top of the cab - same footprint, and a neat way to extend the sound of your amp? Tonal nirvana AND tonal nirvana+. Originally Posted by Patrick2
Last edited by Hammertone; 02-20-2014 at 11:04 PM.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
There's lots of fun in the chase.
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Well that was the original idea. The search for a 15" speaker was so that I could have bottom made locally with the speaker of choice . . . then run it off the Pro Reverb. I've got the Pro sitting up on a Sound Enhancer. So, I'm really capturing all of the bottom end normally lost out of the back of the combo . . and the reflex system of the Sound Enhancer is redirecting the bottom end (lows) out of the front of the amp stand. It sounds fine. Perhaps a 15" sitting on the Sound Enhancer would sound even better . . . but, I'm OK with this set up. For a brief minute, I thought of having a baffle for a 15" speaker and a D130 type speaker put into my Pro Reverb. But, it's a 1970 that's dead mint and all original except for a black face upgrade, cap job and matched power tube replacement. I really don't want to do any surgery on it. Here's a link to the baffle . . followed by a photo of the Pro sitting proudly up on the Sound Enhancer. Originally Posted by Hammertone
http://www.mojotone.com/amp-parts/am...le-Baffle-1x15
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Here's a similar type of a reflex stand that Josh of Atlas Stands made for my Princeton Reverb. It really does make quite a difference.
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Originally Posted by jzucker
Jack, you seem to have a big disconnect (or misunderstanding) with true real costs of manufacturing. With all due respect: "about 10 dollars" is insanely low.
We've had this discussion before elsewhere: Sure, there are given items that stay the same: Cabinet and chassis costs, packing materials, some things like PC boards and control panels, knobs, pots, jacks, etc. That, I agree with. In fact, we try to share as many of these items across our manufacturing platform as we can, to control costs and minimize inventory stocking requirements. I literally make two sizes and three different chassis for most everything we make !
BUT: There are also significant costs that must move UP with power output levels and the cost differences in larger power and output iron, more and/or bigger power tubes, more labor to install and wire same, larger filter caps, and a stronger speaker to handle it all is much wider distance than you think it is.
That being said, I deal with all "ilks" of "musician" daily. Rock guys, jazz guys, blues guys and weekend warriors. It's amazing one phone call or e-mail will be a guy saying "my 4-Aces is too loud". It's a 4-watt amp ! Another call might be a guy who says "I'm getting buried by my drummer with my ODS-100"..that's a 100-W amp !!! Everyone has different expectations for what volume, tone, and clean headroom mean. While the numbers game says vs clarity and non-breakup can be two different things. While a 50-W or 100-W Clean Machine can stay loud and clean up to a decent volume, a Jazz Classic is overall cleaner up to clipping because of higher power and the topology. One jazz player loves his Princeton, while others need a few hundred watts to be loud and clean enough.Last edited by fuchsaudio; 02-26-2014 at 11:43 AM.
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andy you missed the scope of the conversation. The scope was markbass releasing a class D 45W SS guitar head. That was the reference point for its volume not being loud enough. I think a 45w tube amp would be usable, un-mic'd for anything other than a loud big band.
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I understand the intent of the thread Jack. I think in mass-manufacture and Mark being a Class-D specialty house, they should have packed more wattage into that amp, as I bet it would not have cost that much more. For jazz, I agree it won't be loud enough for most, especially when it clips. I also wanted to address your "$ 10.00 comment".
BTW: Music Man recently announced a joint partnership with Mark to bring back Music Man guitar amps....
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not all that crazy about the MM amps.
The $10 comment was in reference to the manufacturing part # of the pre-fab assembly that some folks are using. (Obviously not you) but many of the more cheaply made class D amps are just buying the prefab boards and their cost on them and the diff between a 45w and 100w module is very low. Obviously, there are many more things involved than just the raw BOM
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MM did it backwards for my taste. I would be more interested in a tube front end and SS backend rather than the opposite.
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