For those of you saying 45W SS is enough

**mangotango** · 02-19-2014, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by Pukka-J

I played a JazzAmp 110 (old 60w version) in a big band. Sounded great, loud enough too (though not much to spare).
If I need to be louder I don't want all that sound coming from one direction anyway, so I'll link the amp to the PA system.

So did I, a while back. But all I was doing was playing rhythm, and it wasn't a full traditional big band anyway.

Got to agree here, why wouldn't you want the extra power and then turn down to achieve clarity? I can't see that 45 watts solid state would be too useful for many applications, certainly not anything involving drums.

IMHO, of course.

**pingu** · 02-19-2014, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by jzucker

i don't get the defenders of adding an additional 50-100w to a class D amp. It's not like you *HAVE* to play loud. The extra wattage doesn't have to be used. It doesn't add a huge amount of weight. The same company that makes the DV amp has an entry level 5lb bass head with 500W. Go figure..

interesting debate this

the limiting factor in what we need as guitar
players is having enough omph for a loud gig
is the speaker area.....
(given the point you correctly make jack
that high quality high wattage amps are cheap
(and light) these days)

ie how much air do we need to move ?
and you only really find out on the gig itself
when its too late

paradoxically if you want a small (and light)
combo with say an 8" speaker to be adequate
in volume for a loud gig you'll need a bigger amp than that required for a 10"

AND very relevent in all this is how much bass do
you want in your sound
this is a matter of taste

A guy that wants to 'cut through the mix'
might be fine with a zt lunchbox ie It will get LOUD
enough

but it won't be OK for me because ,
a zt size speaker/enclosure won't produce enough bass at gig levels HOWEVER big an amp you put in it

**Pukka-J** · 02-19-2014, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by mangotango

So did I, a while back. But all I was doing was playing rhythm, and it wasn't a full traditional big band anyway.

Got to agree here, why wouldn't you want the extra power and then turn down to achieve clarity? I can't see that 45 watts solid state would be too useful for many applications, certainly not anything involving drums.

IMHO, of course.

Well, no problems here. Just don't need more watts, so why would I?

YMMV

**pingu** · 02-19-2014, 09:08 AM

I've got a Comp 60
8" speaker 60 watt rms amp (14lbs)
Its just about loud enough with a warm enough
sound (with nothing in reserve) for me ,
Jim Mullen uses one

but I think a 10" small box with a big amp in it
like a mambo 10 wedge 17.5 lbs would be better
and a warmer sound at gig volumes

one day

**iim7V7IM7** · 02-19-2014, 09:20 AM

I originally posted this in the DV amp thread that was the source of this discussion. Here is a nice paper by Rick Jones (Acoustic Image) on the subject of power, volume and size of room.

http://www.acousticimg.com/docs/How%20much%20power.pdf

**jzucker** · 02-19-2014, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by Pukka-J

Well, no problems here. Just don't need more watts, so why would I?

YMMV

you've already made it clear that you only play quiet gigs. Ok, for those of us who play in louder situations, we need more power . Thanks for your input.

**jzucker** · 02-19-2014, 10:01 AM

this forum reminds me more and more of the golf forums, lol

**Pukka-J** · 02-19-2014, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by jzucker

you've already made it clear that you only play quiet gigs. Ok, for those of us who play in louder situations, we need more power . Thanks for your input.

Quiet gigs? Big Band? Whatever.
As has been stated before: everyone has other priorities/preferences.

Don't try to shove more watts down the throats of people who clearly state they don't feel the need to.
If you do want more watts, then fine. There's no absolute truth here!

And more importantly: watts isn't everything! If I played my humble 60 watts through an 4x10 cab it'd be plenty loud for anything.

**Patrick2** · 02-19-2014, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Hammertone

Trying to wrap my head around this - you're an old Italian guy, you play fat old-school carved jazz guitars, you live in New Jersey, and you DON'T own a '60s Ampeg Reverb Rocket 15". WTF?

Well, it doesn't happen often with you Stephen . . . but, when you're right . . you're right. I should have just bought the damned thing. Ya kinda got me thinking now. The amp is still at the music shop (noitce I tactfully avoided mentioning the shop by name . . heh heh . . ) where I saw and played it. The guy owes me a BIG favor too! I could probably get it for $250 . . which is the amount he allowed the guy who traded it in. Hmmm . . .

**Hjalmiz** · 02-19-2014, 10:55 AM

Hey
Sure , this amp is likely underspeced with 45w. It could probably have a larger amp with a small upcharge. It`s a strange choice from them.

In my view a high power amp is not all good though. They can be very heavy to play if u only can use on its first volume stage.

Sure, if u play a oldschool kind of sound , archtop , heavy strings etc, then the amp needs to cope with the energy and produce undistorted sound. But there is a diffrence between unwanted distortion and and the sweetspot just before u get a litle grain where the amp start to compress just a bit.
If you compare a Polytone to a Jazzamp then this is very evident. A Jazzamp is impossible to get a bit of compression out of without turning it up way tooooo load. The Poly will act more like a tube amp. If you want the PA type sound then sure, i get why a Jazzamp, acoustic image etc would be the choice. But for that classic sounds of Wes or Hall i do think u need the tube compression or a moderate power SS amp.

The way that the preamp is built plays a big role aswell ofcourse. I have a 38 w Tube Fender Super Reverb Head clone that is very load without any breakeup. I also have a Polytone Baby Brute(90W ?) that i sometimes play trough a 212 cab. Its load as Hell. No break up issues what so ever.

I dont get Why one would need a 200 W tube amp for JAzz (well maybe Martino :-) . Did some acctually play a twinreverb higher than 3 on the dial ? Thats my my take on it... /H

**pingu** · 02-19-2014, 12:20 PM

Don't try to shove more watts down the throats of people who clearly state they don't feel the need to.
If you do want more watts, then fine. There's no absolute truth here!

Hey its a free market ... buy what want man
you're happy with what u got so thats great ....

some other people here aren't completely happy
with their amps/speakers , me included , and we're allowed to discuss this stuff and have different opinions etc

grow up

**Woody Sound** · 02-19-2014, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Woody Sound

I have a class d GB Compak 300-10. 175W combo. While it's primarily meant to be an acoustic amp, I've tried it in a high-energy big band. It was enough, but BARELY. I gotta think that 45W class d would be breaking up horribly if it could even be heard.

I have to clarify my post. When talking about an amp being enough for a big band, there's a big difference between being able to cut it as a rhythm amp, and being able to cut it for a loud solo.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 02-19-2014, 12:22 PM

Put me in the camp what says class D amps can't have too many watts.

**pingu** · 02-19-2014, 12:26 PM

I dont get Why one would need a 200 W tube amp for JAzz (well maybe Martino :-) . Did some acctually play a twinreverb higher than 3 on the dial ? Thats my my take on it... /H

yeah 200watts of tube is dangerous loud
I wouldn't want to be in that room

**pingu** · 02-19-2014, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Put me in the camp what says class D amps can't have too many watts.

me too ..... have a very high wattage amp
but design in a good compressor/limiter
between the pre-amp and the power amp sections
for speaker protection and a more valve amp
type response
if fact like some active PA speakers are designed but with the comp/lim being adjustable
for us guitarists

**jzucker** · 02-19-2014, 01:49 PM

Thanks everyone for your comments. I just switched to this amp.

For those of you saying 45W SS is enough-2311000000_01-jpg

i found that 10W SS is more than enough for me to use with big band, loud saxophonists, fusion bands, occasional forays into rock and pop music, etc.

So quit trying to shove your high powered, rock & roll amps down my throat. If I need more volume, I just bring a couple 4x12 cabs. Problem solved!

Thanks again. This forum RAWKS!

**Pukka-J** · 02-19-2014, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by pingu

Hey its a free market ... buy what want man
you're happy with what u got so thats great ....

some other people here aren't completely happy
with their amps/speakers , me included , and we're allowed to discuss this stuff and have different opinions etc

grow up

Grow up?

This forum is going downhill fast...

**jzucker** · 02-19-2014, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Pukka-J

Grow up?

This forum is going downhill fast...

and how are your postings contributing???

**Franz 1997** · 02-19-2014, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

and how are your postings contributing???

he's giving a point of view, just like you are.

and he's right - no need for personal abuse just cos someone disagrees.

**Pukka-J** · 02-19-2014, 02:22 PM

???

So you guys decided to make this a personal one?
I have no need for this.

Bye!

**JazzVocab** · 02-19-2014, 02:25 PM

I used to use a (modern) Polytone* rated at 100/120w I think, but wasn't loud enough with a drummer as it broke up. I now use an AI Clarus (which used to be Mundell Lowe's apparently) which copes with our quartet gigs but if anything I still want more headroom.
I'm eyeing up this as I got one in the shop to check out and sounds CLEAN and way loud enough. Jack's right, headroom is your friend!

For those of you saying 45W SS is enough-p1_ufcs3ojgt_ss-jpg

For those of you saying 45W SS is enough-p1_ufcs3ojgt_ss-jpg

**jzucker** · 02-19-2014, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by Franz 1997

he's giving a point of view, just like you are.

and he's right - no need for personal abuse just cos someone disagrees.

he replied that I am shoving my view down his throat.

That constitutes abuse in my book. That is neither constructive nor polite.

**jzucker** · 02-19-2014, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Foulds Jazz Guitars

I used to use a (modern) Polytone* rated at 100/120w I think, but wasn't loud enough with a drummer as it broke up. I now use an AI Clarus (which used to be Mundell Lowe's apparently) which copes with our quartet gigs but if anything I still want more headroom.
I'm eyeing up this as I got one in the shop to check out and sounds CLEAN and way loud enough. Jack's right, headroom is your friend!

For those of you saying 45W SS is enough-p1_ufcs3ojgt_ss-jpg

That one looks really cool. According to the specs of the tone controls, it should work really well for guitar unlike the preamps that a lot of folks are using.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 02-19-2014, 02:59 PM

I have to plug this class D bass amp:

It's not obvious from the knobs, but each of the 4 EQ bands can have its freq centre shifted. From the manual:

Bass: 71Hz to 1120Hz (default 180) -24dB to +15dB
Lo-mid: 100Hz to 1600Hz (default 400) -24dB to +15dB
Hi-mid: 200Hz to 3150Hz (default 800) -24dB to +15dB
Treble: 400Hz to 6300Hz (default 1600) -24dB to +12dB

**jads57** · 02-19-2014, 03:00 PM

Hey all, I think the idea is to SHARE INFORMATION, not tell everyone their choice is best! I think Jack Z. is making some very valid points as working musician on different gigs. I've come to the same conclusions as well, Class D needs at least 100 watts if not more so. Tube amps can get by w/ 50 watts because of the larger transformers,etc. Loud clean headroom when playing rhythm can suck up a lot of power, especially the low end. That's why bass amps generally are higher wattage than guitar amps. Also adding more speakers or at least very effecient speakers help as well. Ideally we're all looking for the most portable lightest weight solution.