-
Here's joe pass and barney kessel playing a duet. Joe is using his polytone and you can clearly hear it overtaxed on chordal solo passages.
This is why you need more than 45W, even when there is a house system.
-
02-17-2014 07:30 PM
-
???
That youTube is not a very convincing argument. The quality is so low who knows what's distorting. Although I'd say they're both way overly loud (assuming the recording is a mic in the house) compared to the rhythm section.
OTOH, my experience with solid-state amps is that 45-watts is nowhere enough power. But then, the amount of watts an amp uses is not necessarily indicative of its perceived volume in any given space. All I would really say is I'd have to do an extensive A/B comparison of a 45-watt ss amp with an amp whose volume profile I'm familiar with before purchase. And since I'm not in the market for any more solid state amps, the point is kinda moot anyway
-
Dunno, I think the power required depends on who and what you're playing with and the role you fill.
For a bass, drums and guitar trio a 50 watt and under amp will be fine, in a band like Chicago with a powerful horn section a backup guitar that wants to punch out lead solos will do better with more power.
-
A 90 Watt amp is 3 dB louder then a 45 Watt amp if both amps is using the same speaker cabinet.
3 dB is the smallest sound pressure difference a trained ear can detect.
Changing speakers from sensitivity 94 dB/Watt to 100 dB/Watt is like changing your amp from 45 to 180 watt.
It is also a big difference between how a amplifier handles the short transients of overload, the initial percussive attack when you hit the string(s). Just a little compression of the signal, can make you "play louder".
It's never watts and power output that is enough, but sound pressure level at the listeners ears.
"It's all about compressing and decompressing air".
-
I used Peavey Clasic-30 tube amp...it was really loud.I've sold it.
Now I use 15 watt pure tube MV3 c amp with great headroom.Loud and clean.
-
The tube amp probably handle short transients (overloading a solid state amp) much better then a solid state amp.
Its all about max continuous power compared to max transient/dynamic power.
Guitars is most about transient/dynamic power
-
It really depends on the amp design itself, the way the watts are measured, speaker size and efficiency.
I once played a 200 watt lunchbox acoustic and found it pretty useless in a noisy bar and with a medium-loud drummer. My 40 watts AER can still handle that situation (it starts compressing then though), and my 30 watt Session Rockette in it's turn blows the AER away in terms of volume. So there's really no general rule of thumb (at least not for solid state amps).
And I prefer my Twin Reverb for most situations anyway..... ;-)
-
disagree. I played in a trio with a polytone megabrain (80W) and it didn't have enough headroom for block chords. Listen to the clip I posted. Joe's getting distorted block chords in a duo
Originally Posted by GNAPPI
-
I played with a polytone megabrain too... i've sold it...difficult to play with loud drumer with it.
-
That's why these generalizations about not needing a certain amount of power don't wash. If you ever play black chords with your thumb ala WES, you probably need 75-100W SS or 22-35W tube. Even in a duo, the polytones fart-out when doing that which is what I was hearing from that video of joe pass and which I've heard before from the many times I've seen him live.
Come on folks, we're in the 21st century. We no longer need to compromise with underpowered amps. You can buy a 6lb amp that has 500W, heck DV makes one (The LM III)
-
I have a class d GB Compak 300-10. 175W combo. While it's primarily meant to be an acoustic amp, I've tried it in a high-energy big band. It was enough, but BARELY. I gotta think that 45W class d would be breaking up horribly if it could even be heard.
-
I have a 450watt Class D amp, I can always turn the volume lower.
-
I asked Andy Fuchs to Make me a Fender Vibroverb 1X15" clone of the 1964 model. Kinda like a Headstrong. He won't even attempt to make a tube amp at under 200 watts. When it comes to good clean jazz guitar tone . . it's all about head room.
-
patrick, a vibroverb is 40w but tube of course so it would have the headroom. The gries 35 that I had was loud enough for anything except a big band but in a band with sax and electric keys, you can't play loud funk with humbucking pickups without it distorting a bit.
-
Yeah, that's all Andy will build is tube amps. He has mentioned wanting to delve into SS . . and when I brought my Evans up to him for some minor repairs . . he was blown away by it. He said if he ever built a SS amp . . it would be like that one. I wanted a 15" combo specifically for the new Heritage Super Golden Eagle that I just had built. I heard Rendall Wall demo it . . and then I played it too, through a shop set up that he had there. It was a Carvin head powering a single 15" bottom. I fell in love! It made the Kent Armstrong clone of the Rhythm Chief 1100 sound heavenly. I liked it better than the Fender Pro Reverb with the single 12". Been chasing a 15" combo ever since. Almost bought a 1964 Ampeg Reverb Rocket 15". Too big and too heavy. Also got a bit queasy about a 50+ year old amp. But, it sounded great. I'm now thinking of just getting a good 15" bottom and running it off of my Pro Reverb. Same 40W tube circuitry as the Vibroverb. What's your opinion on that? Originally Posted by jzucker
-
pro reverb has a wimpy output transformer. Have andy upgrade it to a 50W heyboer one and you should be good to go. Of course, that'll make it heavier too.
-
Screw this... man up, get a Twin and Fergetaboutit :-)
-
it's all a case of "horses for courses" .... just cos some players needs 100W or more does not mean a 45W amp won't suit other players ....
-
Trying to wrap my head around this - you're an old Italian guy, you play fat old-school carved jazz guitars, you live in New Jersey, and you DON'T own a '60s Ampeg Reverb Rocket 15". WTF? Originally Posted by Patrick2
-
with the difference being about $10 in cost to the manufacturer, why create an issue when you don't have to? And I think it's been pretty much established that 45w doesn't cut and and 100w does so why quibble? Originally Posted by Keira Witherkay
-
i don't get the defenders of adding an additional 50-100w to a class D amp. It's not like you *HAVE* to play loud. The extra wattage doesn't have to be used. It doesn't add a huge amount of weight. The same company that makes the DV amp has an entry level 5lb bass head with 500W. Go figure..
-
Have you ever been to a clavichord concert? You're thoughts on volume might be changed.
-
I played a JazzAmp 110 (old 60w version) in a big band. Sounded great, loud enough too (though not much to spare).
If I need to be louder I don't want all that sound coming from one direction anyway, so I'll link the amp to the PA system.
-
and if you're jamming with people or playing somewhere where there's no house system? Does it hurt to have an extra 50-100w? Originally Posted by Pukka-J
-
Well, I'm sure there are circumstances where having more watts would be appropriate, but I haven't encountered them yet. Café's or small stages are no problem, and if there are I'd take my old Cube 60 (also 60w), which has a 12 inch speaker and thus moves more air. I played that thing even in a moderately loud pop band without any problems.
And I haven't met a venue too large for my little amp that didn't have some sort of sound system.
'Loud' is overrated in my opinion. I already have tinnitus...don't need to make it any worse
Reply With Quote
Recommandations for Hollowbodies for $600 and under?
Today, 05:20 AM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos