New Guitar Purchase - Samick Greg Bennet Lassalle Jz4

[SOLR]

Would I get the tension I desire with TI flats, 14-55 set?

Should feel like 013s for us mere mortals......

I did try GHS Pat Martino and like them, they do have that tension.

You mentioned using "I use flatwound 12's standard strings" What are those? what size is low E on that set? maybe use the same brand just go up a gauge....

S

[guitarvegas]

Should feel like 013s for us mere mortals......

I did try GHS Pat Martino and like them, they do have that tension.

S

That's the answer. DOING IT!

[guitarvegas]

That's the answer. DOING IT!

Just ordered from gimmesomestrings.com for $28.99 and free shipping. Good deal!

[SOLR]

That's the answer. DOING IT!

FWIW there's no right or wrong answers when it comes to flat strings, it's more a "you like or you don't" and, often, on a new guitar you kinda have to go through the whole process of choosing what's best for it's sound. It can be an endless quest.
EX: Yesterday I put GHS precision flats 012s on a guitar that usually wears Ti, within a few hours the strings sounded like they'd been there a week (>30hrs) and I didn't have to replace the E and B as I usually do with the TI 012s....

YMMV.. good luck

S

[AllanAllen]

Nevermind, I did some reading on these....I think it is worth it to fork out the extra 12 dollars and go with the Thomastik's. Yes sir....sometimes cheap is not a good idea.

I used to see this thinking on bass forums all the time. Based on their price, the Europeans think LaBella are the best, most premium flatwound bass string and the Americans think Thomastik's are the best. Turns out it costs money to import LaBella to Europe and Thomastik from Europe, if you negate that they'd cost the same and the "premium price for premium product" argument should disappear. Except people will die on any hill these days.

I like Chromes just fine, but it's also the only choice my local store has, so it's an easy decision for me to make.

[John A.]

Question about string gauge for this guitar. This is a long scale guitar, bigger than any other guitar I have owned. I like heavy flatwounds on an archtop. I need that tension when I play....it feels good and sounds great

The longer the guitar scale is, physics tells me that you would need really heavy strings to capture that same feel and tension.

So what should I buy? 14's? Do I need some hybrid set? What should the heaviest string be? And finally can you point me to an online store where I can buy individual strings to make my own set?

All the specs I've seen for this say the JZ4 has a 24 3/4" scale, which is the same as The Loar. What makes you think it's longer? It's easy enough to check -- measure the distance from the front edge of the nut to the middle of the 12th fret and double it. That's your scale length.

That aside, your understanding of the effect of scale-length on string tension is backwards. If you put the same gauge strings on guitars with two different scale-lengths and tune them to the same pitch, the longer scale will have more tension, not less. So in theory if you really want the tension to match exactly you have to put lighter gauge strings on the longer guitar, not heavier ones. However, in practice it doesn't make very much difference, and most people don't even consider this.

[Cunamara]

I guess what I am really saying is that I like the feel of heavy strings and the tension must be there, or else forget it!
I want it to feel like my Loar. That is a much shorter scale guitar and I use flatwound 12's standard strings and it feels perfect to my liking.
Now, moving to my Samick, it is a much longer guitar. Are 13's going to do it, or should I buy 14's? I am not setting g it up myself....I am having a luthier do all the work, cut the nut slots, rewire, put in the new pickup, etc. Will I still be unhappy with 13's? Will they feel flimsy on that guitar? Can be a very expensive experiment....and I don't wish to waste a bunch of money.
So I am thinking 14's. Does that make any sense?

Not necessary. If you think longer scale = less tension, that is incorrect; for the same gauge of string, the longer scale results in more tension. 11s on a 25.5" scale guitar will often feel about like 12s on a 24.75" scale guitar. Now, if as mentioned above, the Samick and the Loar have the same scale, use the same strings.

[garybaldy]

That aside, your understanding of the effect of scale-length on string tension is backwards. If you put the same gauge strings on guitars with two different scale-lengths and tune them to the same pitch, the longer scale will have more tension, not less. So in theory if you really want the tension to match exactly you have to put lighter gauge strings on the longer guitar, not heavier ones. However, in practice it doesn't make very much difference, and most people don't even consider this.

That's what I said in my post #66 but only a few seemed to appreciate it. ie only 2 posts after the OP's confusion in this matter!

[Cunamara]

The problems of living in a post-factual world.

[jazzshrink]

All the specs I've seen for this say the JZ4 has a 24 3/4" scale, which is the same as The Loar...

You are correct, sir.

[guitarvegas]

You are correct, sir.

Do you measure from the nut to the last fret? My Samick is much longer, trust me.

[garybaldy]

Do you measure from the nut to the last fret? My Samick is much longer, trust me.

As someone has said before(!) nut to 12th fret and double it.

[SOLR]

It seems there's lots of contradicting info out there

Greg Bennett JZ-4 Hollow Body Jazz Guitar in Amber Sunburst | Music Planet NZ



solr

[garybaldy]

Please, please just measure the nut to the 12th, double it at let us know!!

[jazzshrink]

It seems there's lots of contradicting info out there.

"Lots?" I saw that page from the New Zealand seller, Music Planet. I found only one other listing claiming 25.5. All the others (a dozen or so) claim 24 ¾.

Of course, this can be put to rest if the OP measures correctly.

[AllanAllen]

You can also measure from the nut to the bridge and not have to double anything.

[John A.]

That's what I said in my post #66 but only a few seemed to appreciate it. ie only 2 posts after the OP's confusion in this matter!

A voice in the wilderness, never heard but often echoed ...

Not necessary. If you think longer scale = less tension, that is incorrect; for the same gauge of string, the longer scale results in more tension. 11s on a 25.5" scale guitar will often feel about like 12s on a 24.75" scale guitar. Now, if as mentioned above, the Samick and the Loar have the same scale, use the same strings.

I could swear someone else said this, too.

Do you measure from the nut to the last fret?

Scale length = distance from the edge of the nut to center of the 12th fret x 2. By "edge" I mean the side of the nut that's touching the fingerboard, not side that's touching the peghead.

My Samick is much longer, trust me.

What measurement is much longer? If you're just measuring to the last fret, the Samick has more frets, so of course that distance is longer, but that has nothing to do with scale length.

It seems there's lots of contradicting info out there

Greg Bennett JZ-4 Hollow Body Jazz Guitar in Amber Sunburst | Music Planet NZ

LaSALLE™ SERIES: JZ4 - Welcome to the World of Greg Bennett Design Acoustic Guitars! : Welcome to the World of Greg Bennett Design Acoustic Guitars!
Maybe there's more than one version of the guitar, but the published spec is 24.34". But the OP has is in hand and can measure, which would be definitive.
[Chrome gives a security warning, but it's fine.]

[garybaldy]

You can also measure from the nut to the bridge and not have to double anything.

With intonation adjustments on the bridge you don't necessarily get the correct measurement.

[guitarvegas]

As someone has said before(!) nut to 12th fret and double it.

Loar 23.25
Sammick 23.75

[John A.]

You can also measure from the nut to the bridge and not have to double anything.

Nope. The bridge is usually positioned further back than the nominal scale-length to compensate for fretting the strings, and it's usually slanted to account for different degrees of compensation needed for different string thicknesses (plus some bridges have adjustable saddles).

A fixed, straight bridge positioned exactly at the nominal scale-length line won't play in tune. Hypothetically, you could position a bridge with moveable saddles exactly at that distance, and if it had enough travel you could get it to play in tune with most gauges of strings, but most builders use less travel and position it further back. (and on Fender style bridges, there isn't really a bridge at all, just either 3 or 6 independent saddles).

[John A.]

Loar 23.25
Sammick 23.75

Can't be. You must be measuring wrong. To be fair, this is not an easy measurement to do, unless you have a long straightedge with fine gradations. If you're just using a tape measure it's hard to get this right.

[garybaldy]

Loar 23.25
Sammick 23.75

?!

[SOLR]

"Lots?" I saw that page from the New Zealand seller, Music Planet. I found only one other listing claiming 25.5. All the others (a dozen or so) claim 24 ¾.
.

Found half a dozen at 24.75 and as many at 25.5" !!!

S

[SOLR]

Loar 23.25
Sammick 23.75

Middle of 12th fret?

S

[AllanAllen]

Nope. The bridge is usually positioned further back than the nominal scale-length to compensate for fretting the strings, and it's usually slanted to account for different degrees of compensation needed for different string thicknesses (plus some bridges have adjustable saddles).

A fixed, straight bridge positioned exactly at the nominal scale-length line won't play in tune. Hypothetically, you could position a bridge with moveable saddles exactly at that distance, and if it had enough travel you could get it to play in tune with most gauges of strings, but most builders use less travel and position it further back. (and on Fender style bridges, there isn't really a bridge at all, just either 3 or 6 independent saddles).

Close enough to tell if it’s one of the two. 24.75 or 25.5. It’s not like there are 24.8 or 25.25 options.