Sitting position

[mbmsv]

Hello fellow guitarists,

I have some experience playing acoustic guitar (although not much of a formal training) but I've never tried electric before. I have just picked up a Epiphone version of ES-335. I am finding that when I put it on my right leg it doesn't feel balanced and the body of the guitar tends to roll over the leg lifting the fingerboard in the process. How am I supposed to keep the guitar balanced on my leg? What's the right position?

Thanks.

[AllanAllen]

I think this is a matter of switching from an acoustic to a thinline. Just play around and you’ll get used to balancing it.

[Reg]

Get use to using a strap. Even with your acoustic.
Or as Allan said... you'll get use to it.

[RJVB]

What's the right position?

The right position is the one that works for you, = let's you play in comfort and with confidence.

Personally I hate playing with a strap while seated, because I already have enough tendency to slouch over my guitar and putting weight on my shoulders creates tension there which then spreads to my neck and down to my hands (esp. the left). Not good, but maybe you're different.

This thread may give you some ideas: Dynarette Cushion guitar support ... experiences? . If the problem lies more in the lack of depth you could consider adding a piece of foam behind the guitar. That sounds like something somebody must already have invented, in fact!?

[mbmsv]

If the problem lies more in the lack of depth you could consider adding a piece of foam behind the guitar.

The problem is not the lack of depth, the problem is the weight distribution in the guitar - the portion of the body with the f-holes is heavier than the fretboard together with the rest of the body. If I put the guitar on the left leg similar to the classical position, then it sits stable thanks to the additional support by the right thigh, but I can't play it comfortably. However, if I put it on my right leg then I need to constantly adjust it with my left hand to prevent it from rolling over the leg and ultimately falling on the floor. I can make it balanced if I aim the fretboard towards the floor, but this doesn't seem to be a comfortable playing position either.

[frabarmus]

For me, most the comfortable position is sitting down, with out a strap with the guitar on my right lap and it's usually balanced (with my archtop, semihollow and solid body guitars), with my left arm at 45 degrees, more or less.

I once had the opposite problem (neck heavier than body) when playing a friend's SG model.

Perhaps try a semi hollow (or other electric) with a slightly smaller body, such as 339 or 336?

This is also one of the reasons why I prefer to buy guitars from a shop or directly from a luthier, in person (instead of mail ordering) and try them out before buying.

[Average Joe]

Some semis are bottom heavy and like to roll over like you describe. A couple of work arounds are to balance it on your left leg instead in a classic position, to use a strap, or to practice in a place where there is some kind of support under it - a couch or the like.

The long term solution is to find a balanced semi.

[RJVB]

The problem is not the lack of depth, the problem is the weight distribution in the guitar - the portion of the body with the f-holes is heavier than the fretboard together with the rest of the body.

I was just thinking aloud in reaction to what somebody else said about thinlines, and because you didn't describe very clear exactly how the instrument rolls. I do think that added thickness should give your right arm more grip to keep the guitar in place; a high armrest might work too, if you can find one.
(And since you mentioned classical position, I'm convinced that's the better one ergonomically speaking, for most people.)

Anyway, carry on!

[Reg]

All good suggestions and points.... but you might want to look at vids of professionals actually playing.

But as you said your just getting started... and have some experience playing acoustic so what feels comfortable now... might not work out later. Living room or bedroom styles typically aren't like playing gigs or in public.

Anyway can work, but later you'll develop what works for you and usually be able to make any style work. Just from becoming use to different styles and the weight and balance of different guitars.

I have a bunch of simi solids, 335, 339 Godins and some copies etc.... Most of them are heavy, which was why I always used straps.... and they never slip around etc. And I used them on gigs etc... The Godin was light...

I still love playing acoustics...

[mbmsv]

The long term solution is to find a balanced semi.

I wonder if the original Gibson has the same balance?... This guitar is a rental and originally I was planning on renting a smaller one but they only had this one.

[mbmsv]

All good suggestions and points.... but you might want to look at vids of professionals actually playing.

I did! They seem to be holding it the same way I do but somehow they are not bothered by the imbalance... Puzzling.

Most of them are heavy, which was why I always used straps.... and they never slip around etc.

I am going to try a strap. And perhaps I will have to practice standing.

[mbmsv]

Found a video of a guy demonstrating (at 3:36) that an Epi ES-335 is perfectly balanced! It appears that they made some changes recently and my Epi is an older version.

[John A.]

Found a video of a guy demonstrating (at 3:36) that an Epi ES-335 is perfectly balanced! It appears that they made some changes recently and my Epi is an older version.

Theoretically, every guitar is perfectly balanced. The tricky part is finding the fulcrum, which might not line up well with your anatomy and/or playing position. Nothing seems to line-up perfectly with mine, which is why I use straps with all styles of guitar.

[Reg]

I did! They seem to be holding it the same way I do but somehow they are not bothered by the imbalance... Puzzling.


I am going to try a strap. And perhaps I will have to practice standing.

Yea...give it a try... Back in the 60's and 70's I played a ES 335... gibson....(gave it to a great blues playing friend), and was great for pop and loud music back then... still played a jazz box for jazz gigs. But we stood for all the R&B, Blues and POP shit.... was part of the show thing. I even stood or used a stool, tall stool for jazz gigs. Was just the way we played... straps were part of it. (lots of sight reading).

I did play acoustic rock style gigs, different more casual venues and we could... sit in chairs etc. or whatever was around. Sometimes didn't use straps... don't remember it being a problem.

Playing shows or musicals... sitting in pits.... back in 80's and playing doubles etc...still used straps.

Playing sight reading gigs you need your hands to be able pull tunes and to turn pages etc...

I never been much at practicing, usually don't use straps , don't remember it being a problem.

I had a Epi 335... didn't like it that much, gave it away. (not saying it's not a great guitar)

[Average Joe]

I wonder if the original Gibson has the same balance?... This guitar is a rental and originally I was planning on renting a smaller one but they only had this one.

I have had semis from several makers, including Gibson and in my experience balance is a case by case issue rather than one manufacturer or another. Have to judge each instrument individually

[RJVB]

I am going to try a strap.

You could try something similar to what theorbo players do. They fix a "half strap" to the endpin (or whatever they have/call it) and then sit on it. Combined with an anti-slip patch on their right leg this prevents the instrument from taking a neck dive (they are as neck-heavy as they look).
I understand that in you case you need to prevent the neck from rising upwards, so you could fix the strap to the upper strap button? If that works you'll have the advantage of not being strapped to your instrument which is probably much more practical if you practise long enough sessions.

[m_d]

I've given quite a bit thought to the issue of comfort in sitting position and concluded that the best version is the classical position (plus a couple of interesting variants made possible by the guitar's light weight and dimensions). With the dimensions of steel string guitars they are not possible unfortunately. What works best for me : using a foot stool under the right foot (if right-handed). With a semi-hollow, while the guitar is balanced, it feels less stable, as it's heavier, therefore I use a strap, but the guitar is still supported on my right leg. With an acoustic, an archtop or a hollow-body, I don't bother with a strap. It's a compromise, as the headstock isn't at head level as it should ideally be (like in the classical position).

[RJVB]

With the dimensions of steel string guitars they are not possible unfortunately.

For you, I presume. I only use that position (the only one in which I can manage more than single note runs with my LH), also with my archtop. I know people who play 17" archtops that way.

Having a short-scale or 12-fret neck join is probably more important keeping the width of the lower bout low.

[m_d]

For you, I presume. I only use that position (the only one in which I can manage more than single note runs with my LH), also with my archtop. I know people who play 17" archtops that way.

Having a short-scale or 12-fret neck join is probably more important keeping the width of the lower bout low.

I don't know. I'm 6'1" and the classical position puts the headstock of a non-classical guitar much too far away to the left.

[frabarmus]

For me, I find that only with guitars that have a smaller body (i.e. Les Paul style etc.) I need a foot stool under my right foot (or a strap) to hold the guitar slightly higher... but the neck usually runs parallel to the floor. That's comfortable for me... not so much the classical guitar slanted, high position of neck. We're all different, that's ok...

[RJVB]

I don't know. I'm 6'1" and the classical position puts the headstock of a non-classical guitar much too far away to the left.

I think I am (or was ) 6'2" and that's largely thanks to my legs, but this is why I added the disclaimer about scale length and/or neck join.
The size of the body itself has only very little influence on the position of the headstock AFAICT. Not to mention that there are CGs with a 670mm or maybe even longer scale length.

I *have* however been trying to find a position where both arms are more centred and I'm less prone to rotate my head or even entire torso towards the left. Haven't yet succeeded but it does remind me of a video from which the OP might be able to distill some more ideas:

He uses that same position even for 18" archtops:

[m_d]

I think I am (or was ) 6'2" and that's largely thanks to my legs, but this is why I added the disclaimer about scale length and/or neck join.
The size of the body itself has only very little influence on the position of the headstock AFAICT. Not to mention that there are CGs with a 670mm or maybe even longer scale length.

I *have* however been trying to find a position where both arms are more centred and I'm less prone to rotate my head or even entire torso towards the left. Haven't yet succeeded but it does remind me of a video from which the OP might be able to distill some more ideas:

He uses that same position even for 18" archtops:

Yeah I've watched Chapdelaine's videos. I don't know how he manages it with an archtop. I asked under one of the videos but no reply. The issue for me other than guitar length, is the weight and how it affects balance. A steel-string acoustic on the other hand can be very light, however I don't see many players using the classical posture.

[RJVB]

I don't know how he manages it with an archtop.

I don't even know how to keep my classical in place in that position, and I'd love to see slow-motion footage of how he does concurrent position shifts and right hand position changes (e.g. sul ponto to sul tasto).

His right shoulder position really doesn't look that comfortable either in that archtop video!

[m_d]

I don't even know how to keep my classical in place in that position, and I'd love to see slow-motion footage of how he does concurrent position shifts and right hand position changes (e.g. sul ponto to sul tasto).

His right shoulder position really doesn't look that comfortable either in that archtop video!

Too bad it's not a larger frame on the archtop video.
At my daughter's classical guitar lesson the other day, the teacher (who was substituting for the usual teacher, so I didn't get an opportunity to ask him abou tit) had a cool way of holding the guitar, over the inside of the right leg crossed flat over the left; I believe some flamenco players hold it like that. I'm not flexible enough but thought it was interesting.

[RJVB]

Too bad it's not a larger frame on the archtop video.

There are several of them, also several on a 16" (Parker).

a cool way of holding the guitar, over the inside of the right leg crossed flat over the left; I believe some flamenco players hold it like that.

Yes, it's quite a common position among classical players when they don't want to bother with a footstool.
It can't be a very ergonomical position for longer durations though as your weight isn't distributed evenly across both "sitting bones" - and it'd cut the bloodflow in my leg.

I think flamenco players also have a position similar to Chapdelaine's, and I think I've even seen them hold the guitar in such away when standing. I don't think that was with a strap (but maybe they had one of those ZZ Top things to attach the instrument to their belt )