Guitar - Easiest or Hardest Jazz Instrument?

[pauln]

Valves lower each of these pitches (valve 1 by a 1/2 step, valve 1 by a whole step, and valve 3 by 3 half steps...

You have two valves 1 there, and the pitch lowering if the second is corrected to "2" is still not right.

Valve 1 lowers by a whole step (index finger)
Valve 2 lowers by a half step (middle finger)
Valve 3 lowers by three half steps (ring finger)

If you observe someone playing the trumpet you will notice that the overwhelming majority of the notes they play are executed using just the first two valves...

The secret knowledge of how to play the trumpet:

1) Do not think of pressing the vales as closing them; pressing them is actually opening them to include additional lengths of tubing. Better not to think of that either - see 2 and 5 below.

2) Do not think of the valves as lowering the pitches by various numbers of steps; because when you blow through the overtone series with the valves "open" (not pressed which really means all the valves are closed - see 1), the interval between the pitches of the overtone series get smaller - the fingering patterns change as you ascend the registers.

3) That part in 2) about "when you blow through the overtone series with the valves open" is also true for all the overtone series generated from any fingering

4) That metal ring that your left hand ring finger uses to operate the little tube slide is for adjusting the pitch of a couple of the low notes to keep them in tune with the rest of the horn's notes. That's right, your horn's got a mini trombone slide to correct like only two or three pitches' tuning, on the fly whenever you play them.

5) Also don't think of the valves as lowing the pitches because that is upside-down thinking. Everyone else (except Jacob Collier) thinks of intervals in the up direction of ascending pitch, ascending scales, etc.

[kris]

Jazz guitar forum is a confirmation that the guitar is not an easy instrument.

[John A.]

You have two valves 1 there, and the pitch lowering if the second is corrected to "2" is still not right.

Valve 1 lowers by a whole step (index finger)
Valve 2 lowers by a half step (middle finger)
Valve 3 lowers by three half steps (ring finger)

If you observe someone playing the trumpet you will notice that the overwhelming majority of the notes they play are executed using just the first two valves...

The secret knowledge of how to play the trumpet:

1) Do not think of pressing the vales as closing them; pressing them is actually opening them to include additional lengths of tubing. Better not to think of that either - see 2 and 5 below.

2) Do not think of the valves as lowering the pitches by various numbers of steps; because when you blow through the overtone series with the valves "open" (not pressed which really means all the valves are closed - see 1), the interval between the pitches of the overtone series get smaller - the fingering patterns change as you ascend the registers.

3) That part in 2) about "when you blow through the overtone series with the valves open" is also true for all the overtone series generated from any fingering

4) That metal ring that your left hand ring finger uses to operate the little tube slide is for adjusting the pitch of a couple of the low notes to keep them in tune with the rest of the horn's notes. That's right, your horn's got a mini trombone slide to correct like only two or three pitches' tuning, on the fly whenever you play them.

5) Also don't think of the valves as lowing the pitches because that is upside-down thinking. Everyone else (except Jacob Collier) thinks of intervals in the up direction of ascending pitch, ascending scales, etc.

Gee, that makes it so much simpler and clearer


Squirrel!

[A. Kingstone]

Aha! Now I sound like Clifford Brown.

[lammie200]

On the bright side, the fact that guitar is not the easiest of instruments to master has always led to me wanting to play more and learn more. There is enough there to hold my interest for my lifetime.

[pauln]

On the bright side, the fact that guitar is not the easiest of instruments to master has always led to me wanting to play more and learn more. There is enough there to hold my interest for my lifetime.

I like that, and I'd like to believe most others like it.
But does it lead to one wanting to purchase more?

Do musicians on other instruments go through lots
of instances of their instrument, or build collections
imagining that if they find just the right one it might
be easier to learn to play? I have always avoided that
(one guitar enough to hold my interest for a lifetime)

[kris]

On the bright side, the fact that guitar is not the easiest of instruments to master has always led to me wanting to play more and learn more. There is enough there to hold my interest for my lifetime.

There are a lot of technical problems to overcome and a lot of music to play.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

[...] 4) That metal ring that your left hand ring finger uses to operate the little tube slide is for adjusting the pitch of a couple of the low notes to keep them in tune with the rest of the horn's notes. That's right, your horn's got a mini trombone slide to correct like only two or three pitches' tuning, on the fly whenever you play them. [...]

Starts at 2:10

[Lionelsax]

Some top Jazz musicians (that did not play the guitar) have suggested that the guitar is the most difficult Jazz instrument (Barry Harris? Miles Davis?). Not sure anyone has suggested that the guitar is the easiest instrument (although I tend to think so).

What do you think, and why? For those that play any instruments other than guitar, your thoughts and comparative experience is also encouraged.

Because jazz guitar is not played like a guitar.
Most of the time it emulates other instruments (drums, organ, piano, saxophone), it goes against the nature of a guitar.

[orri]

Because jazz guitar is not played like a guitar.
Most of the time it emulates other instruments (drums, organ, piano, saxophone), it goes against the nature of a guitar.

But it started out emulating the banjo (AFAIK at least) and that kind of guitar playing is relatively easy.

If you don't play the melody or improvised solos you can play in a jazz ensemble by only playing shell voicings (with our without the bass note) on all down beats and that can count as playing jazz.

I think that if a person has a musical background on an other instrument and/or genre, enough so that they are able to follow the form and the pulse (something you need to be able to do to play jazz regardless of instrument*)), they could relatively easy learn to comp on guitar with shell voicings on the down beats (if they get some guidance to go for exactly that).

[Litterick]

Because jazz guitar is not played like a guitar.
Most of the time it emulates other instruments (drums, organ, piano, saxophone), it goes against the nature of a guitar.

Because the guitar is not a jazz instrument. It should be alone, but is forced into the company of other instruments. It is an imposter, that must emulate jazz instruments to have a place in the band.

[supersoul]

Because jazz guitar is not played like a guitar.
Most of the time it emulates other instruments (drums, organ, piano, saxophone), it goes against the nature of a guitar.

I don't think that's true, the guitar is the guitar and stands on its own as an instrument. Some people like to say they try to play like a saxophone or a piano, but that's more as a metaphor and inspiration. Most people play guitar like a guitar.

Because the guitar is not a jazz instrument. It should be alone, but is forced into the company of other instruments. It is an imposter, that must emulate jazz instruments to have a place in the band.

The acoustic archtop was designed as an instrument for jazz, to replace the banjo and to be heard in a big band. The only other instrument I can think of that was designed for jazz is the drum kit. On the other hand, the saxophone was originally designed as a louder clarinet for marching bands. Trumpet, piano, double bass were all adapted from classical music.

[Litterick]

My point is that the guitar is a solo instrument.

[kris]

Because the guitar is not a jazz instrument. It should be alone, but is forced into the company of other instruments. It is an imposter, that must emulate jazz instruments to have a place in the band.

I understand it differently.
Guitarists learn a lot from saxophonists and jazz pianists ...etc..
Adopts the language of jazz on the possibilities of the guitar.
I believe that it is very useful for the development of the guitar as well as jazz music.

[kris]

My point is that the guitar is a solo instrument.

If you play the accompaniment part in a band, the guitar is the accompaniment.

[kris]

I don't think that's true, the guitar is the guitar and stands on its own as an instrument. Some people like to say they try to play like a saxophone or a piano, but that's more as a metaphor and inspiration. Most people play guitar like a guitar.



The acoustic archtop was designed as an instrument for jazz, to replace the banjo and to be heard in a big band. The only other instrument I can think of that was designed for jazz is the drum kit. On the other hand, the saxophone was originally designed as a louder clarinet for marching bands. Trumpet, piano, double bass were all adapted from classical music.

+1

[lammie200]

I like that, and I'd like to believe most others like it.
But does it lead to one wanting to purchase more?

Do musicians on other instruments go through lots
of instances of their instrument, or build collections
imagining that if they find just the right one it might
be easier to learn to play? I have always avoided that
(one guitar enough to hold my interest for a lifetime)

I am more of "I would like to try this one because it is different than the one I have" kinda guy. I have about 10-11 guitars now. But for about 40 years I only had a Strat partscaster, a Martin acoustic and a mediocre Spanish classical guitar. Once I started to acquire some "luxury money" (haha) I expanded to 5-6 partscasters, a few Gibsons, and a Martin acoustic. But it took me a while to find what I liked besides the three that I played for over 40 years. As far as chasing ones that are easier to play, the partscasters were an exercise in finding the right neck specs for me. From that I realized what my limitations are in terms of neck specs. Pretty much anything will work for except for fretboard radii over 12 inches. That said, I can imagine shedding the number of guitars that I have to only a couple when I get physically unable to improve. So far I have no ailments so I am fortunate that way.

[John A.]

I like that, and I'd like to believe most others like it.
But does it lead to one wanting to purchase more?

Do musicians on other instruments go through lots
of instances of their instrument, or build collections
imagining that if they find just the right one it might
be easier to learn to play? I have always avoided that
(one guitar enough to hold my interest for a lifetime)

Most of the reed and brass players I know have multiple instruments. Not just the obvious stuff like a sax player having a tenor and an alto or a trumpeter having a trumpet and a flugel, but tenor players with 2 or 3 tenors (e.g., for older ones Coleman Hawkins kind of sounds and new ones for more modern sounds), trumpet players with one for jazz and one for classical, etc. I would say not many are "collectors", but some are. A trumpeter acquaintance of mine has a large collection of horns, mutes, and mouthpieces and is deep into the history of the instrument.

But I think it's important to keep in mind that guitars are mostly a lot cheaper than other instruments. We collect because we can afford to. That, and the electric aspect invites way more in the way of gear experimentation that with most other instruments (keys and electric bass being the obvious exceptions). For myself, I explicitly don't want a lot of guitars because I find that can be a distraction from learning music. I've got four right now (i've had as many as 6). I use them all, and this feels like the right number to me (for now anyway).

[lammie200]

...For myself, I explicitly don't want a lot of guitars because I find that can be a distraction from learning music. I've got four right now (i've had as many as 6). I use them all, and this feels like the right number to me (for now anyway).

I can understand that but once I got everything set up it is really fun to rotate through the lot. I do have 1 or 2 that I would be happy to part with, however. Mostly just because of slight redundancies.

[Litterick]

If you play the accompaniment part in a band, the guitar is the accompaniment.

But not essential; between the rhythm section and the front line; expendable.

[tbeltrans]

I watched one of those youtube videos that shows you everything you need to know to play guitar in about 15 minutes and I was able to play. So, yes, the guitar must be easy to play.

Tony

[kris]

I watched one of those youtube videos that shows you everything you need to know to play guitar in about 15 minutes and I was able to play. So, yes, the guitar must be easy to play.

Tony

...You can play everything after 15 minutes - play without guitar.

[StuartF]

I can read music for piano, voice, and sax. I was once a passable jazz sax player.

Playing at the guitar since 1983, I can only read slowly and can’t play jazz for squat.

AFAIC, jazz guitar isn’t hard; it’s impossible.

[ragman1]

Guitar - Easiest or Hardest Jazz Instrument?

You can't just say it's hard or difficult, it depends on so many factors. There are good reasons why some find it harder than others.

There might be any number of reasons, both physical and psychological. Someone with a musical talent growing up in a musical environment may find it a lot easier than someone who takes it up later in life, for instance.

[kris]

If the guitar, which I love very much, was easy to master, I wouldn't practice so much.