-
Hi !
I want to share my experience, my frustration.
I love playing the 7 string guitar, it is not a very difficult instrument, in certain points it's easier than a 6 string guitar.
I've played with a flautist for a couple of weeks now, whe play tunes in duets, he likes this because bass and chords are played with the same instrument sounding like a bass and a guitar at the same time, it can be done with a 6 string guitar but it's less "efficient", in fact the 7 string is the easiest way when you don't play very well.
I don't feel lost when I play 6 string guitar, 7 string guitar, 4 string bass and 5 string bass.
When I've got one of them in my hands, I know what it's about like when I'm eating a sandwich I know it's not a soup.
My friend brings me to jam sessions, they say it's jazz but it's something else.
He wants me to bring the 7 string because it's more comfortable for him.
Even if my words don't show it, I'm quite humble, kind of shy, polite... I'm very strange too.
When I pick the guitar, there is always a bass player who wants to play.
We call a tune and the bass player takes his tablet to see how it is, I don't want him to play and I can't say it because it's so humiliating to say it.
So we play the simplest tune of the world, I won't use the 7th string but I will because he's f****** lost, I help him, everything is destroyed when I take a solo, no consistence, the bass plays what it comes, its player is looking at his tablet.
I had to play something between comping and soloing with my limited skills to keep the tune.
There were only a flute, a funky drummer, the bass guitar and myself.
It's the second times it happens...
The other day we started to play All The Things You Are and a double bass player (a professional one) came and added himself with his tablet (for All The Things You Are ? Seriously ?), without his tablet the guy could really play, why did he bring it ?
The guy can play and he's cool, I confess that in another tune he loved soloing while I was playing bass lines, that was nice.
When I'm comping, I can't forget that 7th string.
With the flautist when I play the 6 string guitar, he dislikes it because something is missing.
What should I do ? Can I say I don't need a bass player ? If I play the 6 string it won't be consistent if someone plays more the tablet than the bass.
They want to play, they want to play with me, I can't reject them, what can I say ?
I shouldn't complain, the opposite would be worst if they didn't want to play with me, I would complain more than I do.
I just feel frustrated, I shouldn't.
What would you do ?
-
11-16-2022 05:31 AM
-
Hmmm.
If you say you want play with these guys then it might be a case of overcoming your shyness and raising your concerns in a nice way.
Also, I get the feeling that you might be expecting stuff to come together immediately? Could be a case of saying 'ok that was shit', let's have another few goes and try to build it up.... or saying, ok, that's a bit off, why don't we do some work on it at home each, then come back next week.
Are you worrying too much about people having a tablet in front of them? It's possible to know a tune but not have played it for a while, and therefore feel more comfortable with something in front of you as a prompt.
-
Every situation requires you to get something unique from yourself and your instrument. It takes playing with people who are better than yourself...or I should say, more musical than yourself, to learn just what it takes to feel the music rather than read/run the changes.
Find someone and people who are challengingly better than yourself and learn about what you need not to get in the way of the music.
Range of dynamics, use of space, the effects of different ranges on the body of sound, the control over how you voice your chords, listening and answering, creating and supporting melody... are all things that go into a rich playing experience. If that awareness is not in the musicians you play with, you're not going to be able to hear and play these things in your own playing.
Sometimes you play to learn. Sometimes you play to enjoy exploring. Sometimes you play to find your own role in the music. Sometimes you play to drive home the point of playing with people who can play above your limitations.
Find good people.
You become a better quartet player by being a good trio player. You become a better trio player by being a good duo player. You become a better duo player, trio and quartet member by being a better chord solo player.
Listen to good examples of the music you love and when you find things that you don't have, aren't aware of, discover them and bring them to your playing situations.
If it isn't inspiring or if it actually brings your own playing down, take a break, make yourself a stronger player, play with stronger players.
I hope you find the joy!
-
That's not the point, I'm not afraid of what people think, they said it was great and kind of impressed by the 7 string guitar. I'm too old for that, and the "let's try again" is not my thing anymore, I am my own piece of art or shit and I am working to play things in the most natural way, everyone has common tunes and the point is not how to play them but how to play them the way we want.
Originally Posted by KingKong
When you say you play jazz, you can't forget Blue Bossa or ATTYA when you play the bass, they are logical motions, they come under the fingers without thinking.
The bass player plays another style of music but had his tablet. He wanted to play, I would have been a perfect asshole if I'd told him I didn't want him to play.
I lived this situation several times when I was younger and it was not fun.
For the other one, it was a mystery, he was reading and figured out he already knew the tune and at the same time that he was lost.
He just ran to his instrument to play with us.
He was sorry... I'd wanted to kill him for a semi-second but it was OK, you would say that it's enough to stab someone.
I forgot to say than after that it was great ! I remember now that the tune was nice.
Yes, I want it comes immediately !
20 years ago or more, people of my age (my age of now) used to play immediately without tablet and pissed me off, again and again, at the end we became kind of friends and I even played some gigs with them (I assume that I was kind of bad) but I learnt from them.
Then I had to go from that "jazzy" town to find work in the region where I was born.
That was 20 years ago.
-
Find pleasure in building something together, which includes helping people who need (and are willing to accept) a helping hand. Make them feel comfortable enough to keep their eyes more and more off the score (we've probably all been there). Originally Posted by Lionelsax
And enjoy it when you end up playing the same notes (it appears that's an issue ATM): doubling the bass line with multiple instruments just adds to the richness of texture.
(16th-18th chamber music duettos for solo instrument + basso continuo are typically played with at least 3 people for that reason; and this is really a "functional precursor" of jazz and other popular music forms.)
-
Thanks, I find joy but it's not enough. Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
As you know maybe you don't but I think we all have that experience. Sometimes you just need to be at the right place with the right people, when you grew up with a kind of community it's easier or more difficult, you have what you need or want but because of competition... You lose it.
I knew this kind of community, they know each other, they play good, they make fun of the others, etc.
You know what I mean, it's a community. They say someone plays good, and then they say this someone can't play...
They talk and talk...
You can find them in jazz schools, I was there, a student and acted exactly the same.
They are not bad people, they are what they are.
I didn't get a musical career maybe because I wanted or my education wanted me to have a normal job.
I came back to get a job.
- Where is Lionel ? What he is doing ?
- Nothing, he's trying to play music !
I don't think talent or skills are so important, you just have to be where you have to be to get those skills, you learn if people allow you to play. Normally skills come with playing if you are at the right place with the right people.
Nevertheless I went on with music because it's a passion, I love music, I don't know if it's reciprocal, I doubt it.
I know that in this forum everyone make fun of the others, it's a community, that's it, like in real life. I'm like you, I make fun of you too but it's cool.
Forgive it, so... Although I played in punk rock bands, I've always felt like playing jazz.
You helped me well, and sure I'm helping myself by posting what I play or try to.
Believe me I work my things, my own things.
Where am I ?
Now I can "play" I lost that stupid community I used to know. Where are they now ? (That was more than 20 years ago).
Where I live, there is a little one like this, they didn't know I was there, I am out of nowhere for them and they use tablets !
I'm sure I will find.
-
Great ! I learnt how to play the piano this way by playing what you said with a simple exercise created by Jean-Philippe Rameau. Originally Posted by RJVB
Remember that the bass line is written, only the root is mentioned in jazz, nobody knows where it will go unless it's prepared or written.
Generally the bass player wants to be free as possible, dynamics, pedals...
They love that.
-
Simply:
You have the control of you getting your playing up to standard.
You have the control of telling others in the group they should get the playing up to standard.
You can have 2 instruments playing in the bass register. It isn't 'off limits'. Listen to Erroll Garner. He slams around in the bass register while there is a bassist. Also, my instrument of Hammond typically has the player use low pedal notes and the left hand bass line higher up in the bass and that works.
-
It sounds like you don't like open jam sessions. Get a gig instead, then you will be in control. Tell the flutist you aren't going to jams. It's okay to not like something and use your time differently.
-
I don't think you can have this in a jam session. Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
Bass and the 7 string guitar share the same register.
About the organ, it's a one man band, the bass can be doubled or maybe the foot plays a very low not that basically works like a bass drum.
About Garner, the bassist plays with him, he lets him some room in terms of register, he lets him some room to let him play contrapuntal lines.
Let me see.
-
See and listen before talking Lionel ! Well, he lets him some room on the low register if he doesn't he is just playing the root or root and 5th, or he is doubling what the left pinky plays or plays a pedal, like the double bass used to do with the cello in the past. Originally Posted by Lionelsax
It's what I understood. Nothing about what I said before !
-
I like jam sessions, I dislike when everyone want to play and don't know what it's about. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
I like when people know what they play even if they play bad or make mistakes.
If you don't know the tune, don't play a harmonic instrument or the bass, play a wind instrument instead (saxophone, flute, trumpet... not an accordion), nobody will blame you if the rhythm session keeps it well.
-
I am coming back from a jam session and it was great !
-
There were many people, I think problems come more from my inner attitude than something else, I played both instruments (I brought my alto sax and my cheap archtop).
The double bass player I was talking about invited me to play one or two tunes for one of his gig.
Very good vibes.
-
nice !
Bruce Forman says something like
in every musical situation you use
what is there and you
‘make something happen’
I play with people who are ‘better’
and people not so ‘good’ sometimes
in every situation I try to make the
band sound good ....
and honour the tune ....
as best as i can
a lot of it is in the groove or time
and the listening
Its always a learning situation
a challenge , sometimes easy
sometimes hard
I bet you play great
play on !
-
I was talking about a community I lost, I found another one, I only went twice to a valid jam session, that's was so simple.
The up-right bass player I was talking about became a friend, the other musicians know me more now, it's cool.
Nothing to see with the topic except everyone had gotten impressed by the 7 string guitar.
Reply With Quote
UK jazz guitar dealers
Today, 11:28 AM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos