Sick of reading so much rubbish!

[KingKong]

Sorry, felt the need for a moan as I've been reading the forum and have come to the conclusion that it's mostly written by people who don't actually play jazz guitar or feel music in any kind of way....

Here is basically the BS that people write.....

'You MUST learn everything in 12 Keys.......' NO you don't, it's pointless on the guitar, just move your hand position, how hard is that?

'You MUST learn to sight read music..........' NO you don't, what do you need to sight read? The head of a tune when you learn it? Just find a you tube video with a tab and do it that way.

'You MUST know the name of every note on the fretboard....' NO you don't, this has very little use in my experience.

'You MUST learn drop 2 and drop 3 chords.....' NO you don't, these are relevant only to piano playing, lust learn a few different fingerings of each chord type to give you some variation, who gives a @@@@ if one is a drop 2 drop 3 or what ever.

'You MUST get a teacher.........' Moot point, been famously discussed before on here..... I'd say no, most of the time people on here get recommended a teacher is when they come on all confused and bamboozled by trying to follow all of the BS suggestions they've read on here!

Then there are the posts that quote some kind of Jazz guitar guru I've never head of ..... Well as xxxx once said, ' it's not the notes you play but the ones that play themselves.... blah blah blah', completely meaningless and devoid of any originality and substance.

Its simple, get this book for £0.00:
The Beginner's Guide To Jazz Guitar (Free eBook)

Work through it to the point where you can comp and play something reasonable over a diatonic tune like Autumn Leaves or Summertime.

THEN YOU ARE A JAZZ GUITARIST IN THE SIMPLEST WAY POSSIBLE.

If you want to go further, get into chord substitutions etc, this will now be easy as you have the fundamental foundations from the above work. Use tunes to learn new concepts.... what's better, to know 10s of different possible substitutions but no tunes that use them, or know 1 substitution and a tune that uses it??

Remember why we are playing the guitar.... it's not to be an autistic technique machine and encyclopedia of music theory but to entertain people and show off to attractive women, or men if that's your cup of tea.

Anyway, that is my view, sick of reading so much rubbish so I decided to write a load of my own, enjoy!

[ChazFromCali]

I agree.
I've been holding back. I could rant even more than you.

YT is more the problem than a solution though, in my opinion.

[alpop]

Sorry, felt the need for a moan as I've been reading the forum and have come to the conclusion that it's mostly written by people who don't actually play jazz guitar or feel music in any kind of way....

Here is basically the BS that people write.....

'You MUST learn everything in 12 Keys.......' NO you don't, it's pointless on the guitar, just move your hand position, how hard is that?

'You MUST learn to sight read music..........' NO you don't, what do you need to sight read? The head of a tune when you learn it? Just find a you tube video with a tab and do it that way.

'You MUST know the name of every note on the fretboard....' NO you don't, this has very little use in my experience.

'You MUST learn drop 2 and drop 3 chords.....' NO you don't, these are relevant only to piano playing, lust learn a few different fingerings of each chord type to give you some variation, who gives a @@@@ if one is a drop 2 drop 3 or what ever.

'You MUST get a teacher.........' Moot point, been famously discussed before on here..... I'd say no, most of the time people on here get recommended a teacher is when they come on all confused and bamboozled by trying to follow all of the BS suggestions they've read on here!

Then there are the posts that quote some kind of Jazz guitar guru I've never head of ..... Well as xxxx once said, ' it's not the notes you play but the ones that play themselves.... blah blah blah', completely meaningless and devoid of any originality and substance.

Its simple, get this book for £0.00:
The Beginner's Guide To Jazz Guitar (Free eBook)

Work through it to the point where you can comp and play something reasonable over a diatonic tune like Autumn Leaves or Summertime.

THEN YOU ARE A JAZZ GUITARIST IN THE SIMPLEST WAY POSSIBLE.

If you want to go further, get into chord substitutions etc, this will now be easy as you have the fundamental foundations from the above work. Use tunes to learn new concepts.... what's better, to know 10s of different possible substitutions but no tunes that use them, or know 1 substitution and a tune that uses it??

Remember why we are playing the guitar.... it's not to be an autistic technique machine and encyclopedia of music theory but to entertain people and show off to attractive women, or men if that's your cup of tea.

Anyway, that is my view, sick of reading so much rubbish so I decided to write a load of my own, enjoy!

Hi King Kong,

Could you post some of your playing so readers of the above would know how much weight to give the opinions that you express?

[Bobby Timmons]

Lol seriously? Rubbish? You don't need to know the notes on the fretboard?! What kind of noob nonsense is that? I agree with some of your points like sight reading and 12 keys work. Sight reading is an extremely hard skill for guitar that only some types of guitarists need. You're better off memorizing the tune for jazz, sight reading isn't very important. 12 key work isn't that important for guitar, although I think it's probably still helpful. Also, if you're not at pro level, you won't make as much progress without a teacher than if you have one. I don't see how that would be something to be mad at. Kind of basic facts..

[rsclosson]

I agree, even though I can read music which has gotten me some gigs I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. Also by doing lots of reading, I have a pretty good handle on the. notes all over the fretboard. It actually helps a lot.
And the drop 2 and 3 chords are very useful. The longer I have played the more I have learned to use 2,3 and occasional 4 note chord positions. They sound better and are very useful.

Actually, the more I read your comment, the less I agree.

On this point: "'You MUST learn everything in 12 Keys.......' NO you don't, it's pointless on the guitar, just move your hand position, how hard is that?"
Again you are correct. One thing I do recommend however is to learn to play in the same key in different places on the fretboard. It will open you up to lots of new ideas.

[ChazFromCali]

Hi King Kong,

Could you post some of your playing so readers of the above would know how much weight to give the opinions that you express?

I'm not answering for the O.P. but I find that an interesting statement. Theoretically: What if he's someone who never picked up a guitar before... yet has some 'on the money' criticism? Would you discount it out of hand?

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

We don't all have the same wants, needs, goals, and ambitions. We play in different settings and at different levels. And we each choose our own acceptable level of accomplishment. So there's only one thing you must do to achieve the greatness that's within you. You must acquire and develop the knowledge, skill and experience to say what you want to say through your guitar (or any other instrument) exactly as you want to say it. You need to be able to play what you want to play as well as you want to play it in the setting(s) in which you want to play it. That's all.

If you're happy with your playing, you're both "good enough" and fortunate to be so. I wish all of us the same blissful state.

[mr. beaumont]

This is either troll level 1000 or the most delusional thing I've ever read here--oh wait, there's the Guitar Revolution guy.

[alpop]

I'm not answering for the O.P. but I find that an interesting statement. Theoretically: What if he's someone who never picked up a guitar before... yet has some 'on the money' criticism? Would you discount it out of hand?

I don't know, it just seems like common sense to me. If a guy can play, I listen to what he has to say.

[wzpgsr]

'You MUST learn everything in 12 Keys.......' NO you don't, it's pointless on the guitar, just move your hand position, how hard is that?

Forget improvising—could you turn on a video recorder right now and play the head or comp 12 choruses of Autumn Leaves, at 110 bpm, through the circle of fifths? If not, I think that's sort of the point that you're arguing against: it's one thing to theoretically talk about "just moving your hand position", but it's another thing to have mastered the fret board to the point where can do so effortlessly. You don't HAVE to be able to do this, but I bet if you practice it until you can do it, you'd reap all sorts of benefits, probably the least of which is playing Autumn Leaves in 12 keys.

[princeplanet]

......Remember why we are playing the guitar.... to entertain people and show off to attractive women, or men if that's your cup of tea...

Fuck yeah! (and sometimes also to unattractive men and women too).

[Bobby Timmons]

Forget improvising—could you turn on a video recorder right now and play the head or comp 12 choruses of Autumn Leaves, at 110 bpm, through the circle of fifths? If not, I think that's sort of the point that you're arguing against: it's one thing to theoretically talk about "just moving your hand position", but it's another thing to have mastered the fret board to the point where can do so effortlessly. You don't HAVE to be able to do this, but I bet if you practice it until you can do it, you'd reap all sorts of benefits, probably the least of which is playing Autumn Leaves in 12 keys.

That's another one of his points that's a misnomer. Noone who doesn't practice in all keys is fluent in all keys - guitarists included. Could someone use a chart and work up a tune in any key? Sure, but I doubt they could run a tune through every key or be able to transpose a song seamlessly on the spot. It's more mental than tactile with guitar, but it still takes some practice.

[rpjazzguitar]

You don't have to play the guitar.

If you do, you don't have to go beyond a few cowboy chords.

If you're satisfied with that, you're done learning and that's that.

But, to suggest that other people, doing other things, don't need 12 keys, or reading, or to know the fretboard, well, I don't agree.

I like playing in big bands. I work on my reading all the time.

I also like accompanying singers and playing music that modulates from one key to another. I need to know 12 keys to do that.

And, if you learned the song in open position in E, you can't move your hand and sound good in Eb.

Did I just feed a troll?

[Christian Miller]

Where’s me popcorn?

[AllanAllen]

You can probably skip F# and Db.

[alltunes]

'You MUST know the name of every note on the fretboard....' NO you don't, this has very little use in my experience.

Knowing what the notes are on your instrument seems mandatory for any serious musician.

[rpjazzguitar]

Knowing what the notes are on your instrument seems mandatory for any serious musician.

I think it depends on what you're trying to do.

My guess is that there are plenty of serious musicians who play entirely by ear and don't know the notes on the instrument.

I wouldn't call them "well-rounded", but I'd accept "serious".

[339 in june]

I suggest we offer a subscription to Mediocre Guitar Player Magazine to the OP
I think he deserves it

[Bobby Timmons]

I think it depends on what you're trying to do.

My guess is that there are plenty of serious musicians who play entirely by ear and don't know the notes on the instrument.

I wouldn't call them "well-rounded", but I'd accept "serious".

[mr. beaumont]

Punk should have just ended with the Bad Brains. There's no topping that.

[Litterick]

If one were to learn some of the fretboard, the rest would follow by inference, surely? Besides, they all start again at the twelfth.

Transposition is torture.

[pcjazz]

You can probably skip ,,, Db.

Body & Soul
Stardust (often)
Robbin’s Nest

etc etc

Unless you only want to play by yourself of course.

[KingKong]

Forget improvising—could you turn on a video recorder right now and play the head or comp 12 choruses of Autumn Leaves, at 110 bpm, through the circle of fifths? If not, I think that's sort of the point that you're arguing against: it's one thing to theoretically talk about "just moving your hand position", but it's another thing to have mastered the fret board to the point where can do so effortlessly. You don't HAVE to be able to do this, but I bet if you practice it until you can do it, you'd reap all sorts of benefits, probably the least of which is playing Autumn Leaves in 12 keys.

What would be the point of this exercise?

' Darling! We gotta go down the jazz club tonight, there's a guy there who does Autumn Leaves in all 12 keys at 110 BPM.....'

Not gonna happen..

[mr. beaumont]

What would be the point of this exercise?

' Darling! We gotta go down the jazz club tonight, there's a guy there who does Autumn Leaves in all 12 keys at 110 BPM.....'

Not gonna happen..

It's almost like songs don't have similarities, and learning one in multiple keys could actually help you learn another.

Or that singers who need different keys don't exist.

[vintagelove]

Knowing the notes isn’t important???