Help with The Advancing Guitarist (Mick Goodrick)

**elixzer** · 04-11-2010, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by monk

Elixzer,
The seven modal vamps that Goodrick gives to play over are on pages 15 & 16. I would think that you could use BIAB or some other looping program to setup a playalong.

They are playable if you want record them yourself. You have to tune to Drop D to play the Dorian vamp.

The idea is to isolate each mode to train the ear as well as play on each string individually to train the hand to where the modal patterns lie in a straight line.

The book is densely written and becomes easier to understand with multiple readings.
Regards,
monk

......The book will certainly move my arse to begin learning musical notation. But I still feel I am not getting a clear answer to my simple question which is --is it OK to just strum the simple chords of C major (for 3-4 mins) then strum Dminor for same amount of time and so forth and then I can begin experimenting on separate strings
ONCE I dig that is OK I can begin.

**fep** · 04-11-2010, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by elixzer

my simple question which is --is it OK to just strum the simple chords of C major (for 3-4 mins) then strum Dminor for same amount of time and so forth and then I can begin experimenting on separate strings.

You could do that, but I think it's better to use the specific chords he listed. His chords include the notes that bring out the character of each mode and they're more interesting to play over.

That's what I'm giving you with these mp3s.

Why don't you just use the mp3s?

Let me know if you plan I using the mp3s and I'll add all the modes - by the end of this week or sooner.

**elixzer** · 04-11-2010, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by fep

You could do that, but I think it's better to use the specific chords he listed. His chords include the notes that bring out the character of each mode and they're more interesting to play over.

That's what I'm giving you with these mp3s.

Why don't you just use the mp3s?

Let me know if you plan I using the mp3s and I'll add all the modes - by the end of this week or sooner.

Of course I will. Thankyou very much for your help!

AT the moment I am not understanding the modal vamp part of it yet, but feel that getting into melodic improvisation is AS important
(if you check my past posts you will notice i began a thread ('i will understand modes if it kills me' about modes a year ago, and it is a great thread. I am sure i learnt, but I put guitar down for a year and thus feel I have forgotten a lot which I need to relearn about the whole modes thing. Not that I 'knew' it---you know what i mean)

OK so I am going to then use your recordings. If I have any questions I will of course ask. bascially though--as said in book, I am mapping the A-A notes on the string, no sharps or flats. Though I am at the stage where I am COUNTING the notes rather than calling them by the note names.

**fep** · 04-11-2010, 01:19 PM

My understanding is the modal vamp is just a background to practice playing your modal lines on a single string.

Playing the modal lines on a single string is the excercise. You just use the modal vamp in the background while doing it.

**bako** · 04-11-2010, 01:26 PM

Elixir,

The important thing is to get started. Fep has provided you with a few vamps.
I would suggest that you start with those.

**musicjohnny** · 04-11-2010, 01:30 PM

Reading through itsall4you's post made me wonder,
What's the dif between a G7sus and a G11?

**elixzer** · 04-11-2010, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by bako

Elixir,

The important thing is to get started. Fep has provided you with a few vamps.
I would suggest that you start with those.

I have just completed improvising on each string playing fep's mp3. I mean that after it finsihed I would restart and then move onto next string etc! I am not imagining thats it by any means. I know entails intense (with out tension) study!
The string i really felt becoming a bit possessed with was 6th string

**fep** · 04-11-2010, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by musicjohnny

Reading through itsall4you's post made me wonder,
What's the dif between a G7sus and a G11?

G11 has a 9th in it. G7sus doesn't

**fep** · 04-11-2010, 01:45 PM

Here is F lydian

Goodrick | Fmaj7#11 |

Not available in BIAB so I used | Fmaj9#11 | - same harmonic function

The lydian character is from the #4 which in F lydian is The B note - spend some time emphasizing that note to get your ear used to the lydian sound.

**fep** · 04-11-2010, 02:05 PM

Here is G mixolydian.

Goodrick's chords which I was able to use in BIAB:

|G C/G | F/G C/G |

**Scrybe** · 04-11-2010, 02:28 PM

Keep practicing them tho, this isn't something you'll fully internalise on a single attempt.

**elixzer** · 04-11-2010, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Scrybe

Keep practicing them tho, this isn't something you'll fully internalise on a single attempt.

I intend to.

Baltar Hornbeek · 04-11-2010, 03:11 PM

I love those modal vamps. Cmaj7/Gsus9 and Dm69/Dmsus. So simple but so complete. I'm dying to know the 5 other modal vamps that are apparently in the book. Should I run out and buy it, or take a shot and figure them out on my own? I'm lazy, I want the book.

**fivebells** · 04-11-2010, 07:57 PM

elixzer — learn to play some songs. Leave soloing over vamps 'til later.

**callumbtaylor** · 04-12-2010, 06:15 PM

Just to say, fep - when you wrote out the chords from the book for E Phrygian, you put the 3rd chord as D minor 7, it's actually an E minor 7 chord with the 5th (a B note) being doubled, interestingly at both 5ths at the same pitch

**fep** · 04-12-2010, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by callumbtaylor

Just to say, fep - when you wrote out the chords from the book for E Phrygian, you put the 3rd chord as D minor 7, it's actually an E minor 7 chord with the 5th (a B note) being doubled, interestingly at both 5ths at the same pitch

That was a typo, it is Em7. I changed it in my post.

(The mp3 I attached is correct, it's an Em7 on the mp3)

**fep** · 04-17-2010, 01:43 PM

Here's A Aoelian BIAB mp3 backing track

Goodrick's chords which I was able to use in BIAB:

| Am | Fmaj7b5/A |

**fep** · 04-17-2010, 01:46 PM

Here's B Locrian BIAB mp3 backing track

As close as I can estimate Goodrick's second chord is an Em as the E and G notes are the longer held notes...

So Goodrick's chords which I used: | Bm7b5 | Em |

**elixzer** · 04-17-2010, 03:38 PM

Thanks. At the moment I am really practising the Modes, up to nor D Dorian and E Phrygian, because I realize I must step up my game to even begin this book. I also have been studying some theory at this great site Ricci Adams' Musictheory.net

It is a great site, but if you know of any others that explain music theory any easier I am all ears lol

**elixzer** · 04-19-2010, 02:45 PM

I have just found--by chance--this great link which just has to be linked up in this thread!

**Scrybe** · 04-19-2010, 02:47 PM

thx for the abercrombie link, been meaning to check utube for any tute vids by him, but got a ton of other stuff to do, too

**jony lone** · 05-17-2010, 02:55 AM

i'm a little confused. Am i suppose to use the c ionian scale over the c ionian vamp and emphasize the c note? and the same for the other vamps?

**bako** · 05-17-2010, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by jony lone

i'm a little confused. Am i suppose to use the c ionian scale over the c ionian vamp and emphasize the c note? and the same for the other vamps?

The vamp emphasizes the modal color already and so you can play however you like using the note collection. You will learn the sound of each note in relation to the vamp by emphasizing different notes in turn and listening to the result.

Each mode has a set of intervals that create the color of the mode. When playing without backing only playing all 7 tones confirms the mode absolutely, but there is no need to do so if the music doesn't call for it. In this context establishing C as the tonal center is more important.

Ionian--- 1 3 5 7 2 4 6
1 confirms the tonal center
3 establishes the possibility of a major chord
adding 5 confirms it as opposed to the possibility of augmented or mab5
7 establishes that it is not a dominant 7th
2 establishes that it's not the 6th degree of the harmonic minor
4 establishes that it's not lydian
6 establishes that it's not harmonic major

**voodoothatido13** · 01-18-2012, 01:56 PM

Hey fep! Working my way through "Advancing Guitarist" and happened across this post. Just wanted to say thanks for putting those vamps out here for everyone to use. Very cool!

**whatswisdom** · 01-18-2012, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by voodoothatido13

Hey fep! ... thanks for putting those vamps out here for everyone to use. Very cool!

Let me join with you on thanking the man. fep, you're doing a lot of great stuff on here. Vamps are nice to have at our disposal. I'm keeping an eye on the Leavitt study group too. Hope to contribute when I get my web-tech act together...