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I'd argue the exact opposite is true. If you find a good teacher (someone who knows how to play jazz really well), they will help you to learn the things you need to learn in the right order and more efficiently, because as someone who doesn't have a clear knowledge of the path, by yourself you will likely just end up piling up lots of unusable fragmented knowledge and skills and spend ages trying to sew everything together to be actually able to play (I went through that experience and observed other people going through the same). No course or book can tell you what's your next step, only a good teacher can. Once, over the course of a couple of months of weekly lessons and lots of woodshedding, the path becomes clearer to you, it will be much easier for you to navigate all the extra material like the courses you linked and you will know which one is good for you next.
Originally Posted by cris1xy
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04-26-2021 04:56 AM
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You are very right. However I broke things down very simply to focus on learning tunes by ear, vocabulary and just get my technique up and going. I did not have any highly recommended jazz teachers close by and with life and all going on it wasn’t possible. I chose a course that a lot of others on here spoke about and I’m taking it from the ground up plus it comes with some private lessons so it comes down to what you are saying I do need some direction from a teacher. That plus a few books at a time (I have a lot). I do see some progress from the time I first posted this to now. Once this is done I do plan to find a local teacher to study with regularly. Originally Posted by chameleon
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I just got Greg Fishman jazz guitar etudes but I’ll write this one down. Frank’s channel is awesome. I learnt a lot there in the month when I was on there and plan to return. Really had to try everything that was out there and my plan is between my main course, just rotate a few months on some of the others. But yeah you get a lot on Frank’s channel. Originally Posted by voxsss
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So I'm basically self taught and learned on jobs. Nothing like having make a rent payment for motivation,LOL !
3 things are most important above all!
1.)Know all the notes on your fingerboard
2.) Know some music theory, scales and chord construction above the 7th degree
3.) Learn Repertoire! This is most important if you want to understand why the first 2 things are so important!
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I don't have any recommendations, just a couple of observations.
Asking a student to submit a video of his/her playing seems sound pedagogic practice, as it allows the teacher to study and analyse what's going on before the lesson, which allows better preparation. In real time teaching, details can easily be missed, and explanations too hurried. You will have to get over that shyness if you're ever going to play out, anyway.
It's ironic that a non-native speaker of English (Jens) turns out to be a better (verbal) communicator! Bit of a wake-up call for native English speaking teachers who maybe think they're addressing the guy down the road.
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Interesting discussion. Apologies that I don't have a course recommendation (however I do think Jens is great). Just wanted to comment on the bit I quoted above. Originally Posted by cris1xy
The interesting thing about instruction is the whole "you don't know what you don't know" thing. For example, I think a lot of players/students spend too much time drilling scales and arpeggios in the beginning of their, um "jazz journey" (for lack of a better term,) relative to other skills. A good teacher can help properly prioritize things like arpeggios against other practice activities (eg you may be overdoing it, or under-doing it!) and also lay out more efficient strategies for tackling whatever it is you're working on. There isn't much to substitute for somebody sitting with you for a few minutes and going "ok, can you do this? ok how about this? ok that's too hard, that's ok. how about this? oh, ok, clearly that's real easy for you, so I think the best things for you to work on right now are..." and then digging right into the most helpful spot of development, as opposed to covering ground you're already comfortable with, or going too quickly into things that might be above the pay grade.
Keep in mind that, depending on the teacher, there may not be a minimum frequency - eg, you can have 'check-ins' once a month, once every two months etc.
So I guess my points are two-fold:
1. Whatever your stage of development, the right teacher is likely a big time saver, at minimum, in the end. (Of course, a bad teacher can send you in the wrong direction and do more harm than good, but that's another topic I guess.)
2. The teacher vs course thing doesn't necessarily have to be all or nothing; you might find it useful to be working with course material and separately do sporadic or infrequent kind of 'check in' sessions with a teacher or even with a variety of teachers.
Just my $0.02.
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Random Root Sheets for Efficient Music Practice | Anton Schwartz - Jazz Music
Use those sheets for a few years when practicing lines, melodies and other things.
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Hey chris... you need to get some jazz skills on your instrument before lessons. Technical very boring. If your interested... I can post basic required guitar skills to start playing at the speed of jazz.
Disclaimer... many on this forum might disagree, but not many pros.
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Sure. Every bit of advice is welcomed and I take what works for me from everywhere l can find it Originally Posted by Reg
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Thanks for that link. Already printed it and using it to some extent Originally Posted by coolvinny
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Thanks. Worth more than 2 cents. Direction and structure does make a teacher seem necessary for me to make any progress upward Originally Posted by JakeAcci
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Thanks for the advice Originally Posted by jads57
So I'm basically self taught and learned on jobs. Nothing like having make a rent payment for motivation,LOL !
3 things are most important above all!
1.)Know all the notes on your fingerboard
2.) Know some music theory, scales and chord construction above the 7th degree
3.) Learn Repertoire! This is most important if you want to understand why the first 2 things are so important!
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So chris....
1) Need to determine where your at with your guitar skills...
2) Would help to see your fingering and picking skills. Don't need to see much...
Do you understand that the guitar is a 12 fret repeating pattern instrument ?
As far as where to start... Can you play 2 octaves of a G maj. scale starting on low "E" string... starting on all scale degrees. (so you would be starting in 2nd position and start on each scale degree and move up by position to 14th position). This has nothing to do with playing scales....just understanding the fretboard.
If you can... can you do the same with arpeggios.
Again... these are just basic instrument technical requirements... not Performance skills. Not what to play or hear, How to realize on the Guitar... what you play and hear.
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Outstanding work Jads!!! So, how’d you go about learning the fretboard, and how did doing so impact your playing? Originally Posted by jads57
So I'm basically self taught and learned on jobs. Nothing like having make a rent payment for motivation,LOL !
3 things are most important above all!
1.)Know all the notes on your fingerboard
2.) Know some music theory, scales and chord construction above the 7th degree
3.) Learn Repertoire! This is most important if you want to understand why the first 2 things are so important!
I’m a big fan of self taught players!
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I did the Richie Zellon course for a long time. Almost made it through the entire first course before moving on. It's very good for *starting* to get a handle on arpeggios and various ways of approaching the chord tones in those arpeggios in a few different positions that reflect the intervals of the chords you're playing. I think in theory the rhythm templates and etudes make sense for internalizing some of that stuff, but...and it's a big but....while the rhythms chosen for these etudes are commonly found in jazz, if you play them straight as written, it's going to sound really, really corny, and you don't want to be internalizing that corniness into your playing. I have great respect for Richie and his method—I think it works, but I also think you have to be aware of the pitfalls and make sure to work at your phasing and timefeel so you don't end up swinging like a cornball. Always reference real recordings / live players for this, especially when starting out.
Honestly, if it's at all an option, I'd recommend getting together with a teacher—weekly, monthly, quarterly, whatever—whether virtually or in person.
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You know, I tend to think in complementary terms more often than in mutually exclusive. That said, it would be ideal to find a teacher who recommends a method/course, and then go through the said course under the supervision and with feedback from the said teacher.
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If you want structure, you may be better off with a formal course. Some suggest Berklee's online jazz guitar course. A private teacher is the next best especially if they have a teaching qualification. I personally don't think you need to reach a level before getting lessons. In fact, there's a case to argue the earlier you start with a teacher the less bad habits you'll form.
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