How Should I Rethink Theory?

[Tal_175]

If you took many years of lessons, devoted that much of yourself to figuring this craft out, and are still lagging, then the problem is the way you learn. The problem is you. I know, because this was me!

I took, and and only "passed" Music Theory in the 80's in HS with a 65 mark. I could not read music. I could not relate the staves to my brain, to my strings. There was a massive lag built in. I'm a really smart person. I've figured out far more complicated concepts than the letters of A-G. I have been obsessed with music since birth. Why wasn't it coming easier? If I'd devoted this much time to the pursuit of economics, I'd be running the world bank. I am an incredibly fast reader of text, but every good boy deserves fudge was wiping the floor with me.

I never gave music up, I just kept playing new tunes, jamming my pentatonics, working in an arpeggio when I was feeling buck wild. I sat on that plateau from 22 to 47.

Then, in what I now realize was an act that saved me, I went to a doctor, and the doctor screened me for Adult Attention Deficit Disorder. She saw in my narrative all the hallmarks of this condition. She prescribed me a pill. Within a week, I was no longer anxious, I no longer tried to just whip through my days. I was soaking in the life around me like I never had before.

But music. Music was where this has had the greatest results for me personally. I can learn like I never could. I could always flip open a Real Book and follow the time, read the chords. I would figure out the first note of the melody, and "cheat" the rest of the melody by ear. Played hundreds of paid gigs this way. And no one has to believe the following, but I could instantly read music on the first day this medicine kicked in. First day. I was no Stravinsky, like a 4th or 5th Grader, but it was there. All that frustration and all that effort that seemed to go nowhere for all those decades. I hadn't gone nowhere. My brain wasn't absorbing information correctly. Doesn't mean I'm not a brilliant guy, I just had my windows rolled up on life's information highway.

Maybe this isn't the root of your issue. But it must be for someone else out there. All the other rough pieces of life have smoothed out a lot since as well. If your music is suffering, then you know the problem is deeper down. Care enough to properly link your jazz hands to your jazz brain. I was just singing Minor 6 chords to myself, and thinking how crazy that would have been a few years ago. If I could see myself now back then, I would have sworn I got a music professor's brain in a Freaky Friday-incident. Just my two cents. And fifteen other unsolicited dollars, but from my heart, it has really been a miracle for me. Maybe you don't have what I have, but if you want to learn music, and you love it, and your brain feels untrainable, talk to one of these brain docs. Turns out they know their brains.

Interesting. You had attention deficit disorder, but you were strong in other, more complicated subjects. Why was ADHD holding you back in music but not in other subjects? I don't know much about ADHD but I thought people with ADHD are generally slow readers but you said you were an incredibly fast reader. Is there a specific relationship between ADHD and musical ability?

[rpjazzguitar]

Interesting. You had attention deficit disorder, but you were strong in other, more complicated subjects. Why was ADHD holding you back in music but not in other subjects? I don't know much about ADHD but I thought people with ADHD are generally slow readers but you said you were an incredibly fast reader. Is there a specific relationship between ADHD and musical ability?

Language based learning disability is common in ADHD, but not 100%. I recall seeing numbers from 45% to 70%, depending on the study and how things were defined.

[coolvinny]

Too busy these days to read through all the comments, but my gut feeling is that the OP hasn't really "learned" enough tunes. Memorize 12 tunes to the point where you can play each one in at least two different keys without any assistance, including soloing, comping, etc, then re-assess.

Note: 12 is a lower number. Once you get to 30, things get much easier.

[ragman1]

I think zigzag's got it all wrong, hence his problem. He doesn't need to re-think theory, he has to understand theory, then he can apply it. Most of what is called theory isn't really theory anyway, it's just music.

Find a simple tune. Find out what to play over it. Play it. Simple :-)

[princeplanet]

What's more important in Boxing? Footwork? Or punching power? Or both? You can be a world champion with the fanciest technical footwork but no power in your punches, conversely, you might have a killer right hook that you only need to land once. The object is to "win", right? So I guess you just choose what suits you best.

But in Jazz, the object to "win" can only relate to "winning" gigs etc. While that's important to some (and that's diminishing every year), perhaps the object should be to get some satisfaction from this jazz guitar caper, and the more effort you put in, the more satisfaction you reap. Which probably means that finding short cuts or hacks in order to bluff your way into making people think you're OK at jazz guitar is short changing yourself - you're not enjoying your own playing as much as the casual listener might! Now I don't think this is a popular idea on this forum, but for me, I'm far more interested in amusing myself that entertaining others, and I get deep satisfaction making my own musical discoveries, and working them into my playing, painstakingly if need be.

So what's this got to do with the question of how important theory is? Well, Theory helps to make you the complete musician. Knowledge of how music works influences what you hear, and what you eventually play, which in turn leads to other little "discoveries" that only music theory helps you to understand and develop. It's a wondrous never ending cycle. Sure, Wes didn't read music, but he knew a lot of theory and applied it everywhere, so knowing theory is not about reading music (although it needn't hurt). When I was a young flashy noodler people thought I was some kinda prodigy, but I always had impostor syndrome, I never enjoyed playing as much as it probably seemed (to others). But when I realised satisfaction in music would only come from impressing myself before others, my real musical journey began...

So I say theory helps you be the complete musician - you hear better, understand better, practice better, analyse better, compose better, play better.... It opens doors where you choose to go as deep as you dare, and rewards you in kind. Advanced Jazz Guitar is a high form of Art, make no mistake, and Art is not Sport, nor is it a Science.

So, technical footwork or knockout punch? Well, it's surely way more fun to have both! Go ask Floyd Mayweather ! ...

[Chickasaw Mick]

Interesting. You had attention deficit disorder, but you were strong in other, more complicated subjects. Why was ADHD holding you back in music but not in other subjects? I don't know much about ADHD but I thought people with ADHD are generally slow readers but you said you were an incredibly fast reader. Is there a specific relationship between ADHD and musical ability?

I've always had pretty prodigious reading skills, text-wise. A very early reader, I have advanced degrees in English and Lit. I can read a novel faster than anyone I know.

I don't think, personally, that treating this condition has "enhanced" my musical ability. It 100% has enabled, however, a new focusing ability in my brain, and all the years of musical "book learning" I have tried and failed to apply to my guitar are making sense to me suddenly. I knew what a minor chord was. I could tell you what a ii V I progression was. I could play both on my rig. But I could never sync it all together. So I compensated for this inadequacy by playing by ear. But I wasn't "hearing" things well. I couldn't read music with enough speed to make it useful- I could just comp off a chart.

I am still giddy every morning- I have been doing a two or three hour practice session in the mornings, and I'm just profoundly happy at this newfound focus. A former song and dance man, finally getting his inner-Barney Kessell together. I always hated professions like this. Oversharers. I know, I know. But man, if one other jazzer got his or her swerve on like this, I'll have served my purpose. It's astonishing how poorly one can nurture their very strongest aspects. I am now re-learning everything, and doing sight-singing for the first time (holy whackamoley is THAT ever good for your guit-playing).

Many musicians and artists suffer from this and related conditions. I know many personally who I'd love to tell this story to, but I've hit the internet instead. It's the last I'll speak on this, because I'm not preaching, and nobody wants to hear someone drone on, and I certainly didn't want to hijack the thread. I really dig this forum. But do you drink 58 gallons of coffee a day, but don't feel a "buzz" from it ? Do you hate mundane tasks/jobs at home or work more than other folks? Did you ace tests in school with a low average because you didn't do homework and played your guitar instead (I did). Are you a slob? On your guitar, do you feel as if you're not grasping something in the music that you're supposed to be hearing, despite pouring yourself into it? That's why I posted this here. I just can't believe the difference in myself since I got a little push.

I want to end this post with one of those commercial disclaimers about dry mouths, stroke, loose stools or constipation to really nail the effect....

[ragman1]

"There is some evidence to suggest that students with ADHD can excel at music, as they can possess the ability to totally focus on something (like a piece of music) if it really interests them"

Music and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) – SCIPS

[rpjazzguitar]

"There is some evidence to suggest that students with ADHD can excel at music, as they can possess the ability to totally focus on something (like a piece of music) if it really interests them"

Music and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) – SCIPS

ADHD presents differently in different people. Some can't focus on anything. Others can focus when something is sufficiently interesting to them -- but can't focus very well otherwise. Many can focus on something which is sufficiently fast moving, but can't focus if something is slower (video games vs reading, for example). I haven't seen any evidence that music is different,; it may simply be that people love it.

The treatment is generally stimulant medication. It works. It also has side effects which are troublesome.

[pauln]

I've been committed to playing and learning on and off for close to 25 years. From 2002 to 2012, I took lessons from a very competent teacher, and I suspect my issues have more to do with my shortcomings than his. He taught me scales, modes, the cycle of fifths, intervals and chord structure, and the basics of reading notation. After all of this, I think I have developed a somewhat intuitive feel for intervals on the fretboard, but much of theory beyond what I was taught escapes me. When I read posts on this board about chord substitution, dropped chords, voicing, etc., none of it really makes sense to me. I think part of my problem is that my reading skills are poor, and I don't readily associate notes in a scale or on the fretboard with their actual note names... just their scale/chord intervals.

I struggle with music theory... even though I am very good at math, I don't really get music logic. Have I already identified the shortcomings I need to work on, or are there other recommendations for things I need to work on or ways I need to perceive or conceptualize music logic?

Music theory concepts are expressed:
- verbally in writing and speech (word definitions and relationships)
- numerically (scale degrees, intervals, Roman numeral progression chords)
- graphically in standard music notation (visual marks, symbols, and signs)
- mechanically (geometric kinesthetic patterns and shapes)

But music and its logic are invisible, which suggests its logic manifests a different kind of space. All music theoretical expressions comprise inconsistent or incomplete analogies - they don't share in the phenomenological mode of music which is an auditory logic space. When people mention that theory is descriptive, not prescriptive, this is what they mean. In the music learning process, the theory analogies are grasped looking backward - the things are encountered and heard first in auditory space, then the names, numbers, images, and motions of them may be recognized and attached. It is just the collecting and holding of things not yet grasped that produces confusion.

It is OK; time listening to music, playing, and listening to your playing will introduce you to these things even before you know their names... let the theory passively naturally back fill what you learn and focus on figuring out songs. Everything you need to know is already in the songs you want to be able to play.

[Irishmuso]

I
Find a simple tune. Find out what to play over it. Play it. Simple :-)

And of course, find out what not to play, which is subject to both subjective and objective assessment. Playing some favourite outside lines can, in certain settings, lead to suggestions that you should start your own band.

[ragman1]

And of course, find out what not to play, which is subject to both subjective and objective assessment. Playing some favourite outside lines can, in certain settings, lead to suggestions that you should start your own band.

Yes, and also what not to play :-)