Mastering a Jazz Standard Melody

[Jazzdvd]

Hi guys i had a question about when learning melody...There's different information i've read that to get the most out of the melody that one should learn it in every scale position then i've read other people saying that one should learn it in 3 different octaves.What is the best approach in learning a melody and mastering it?Thank You

[docbop]

I'd say you're just focusing on the technical side to really learn a melody is learning to phrase it to make it come out in a vocal-like manner.

As I said before one of the best classes I had at GIT was a class on playing just the melodies of song run by Joe Diorio and the other Jazz department heads. Joe whole thing about playing interpreting a melody and playing it with feel. Now Joe would have you change technical things like the range, adding ornamentation, playing on only one or two string, etc, but bottom line every time was playing it with good phrasing and feel.

[GuyBoden]

I always listen to the recording repeatedly and then sing along with the melody. I find that if I can sing the melody, it's easier to play it on the instrument.

[Jonzo]

You don't mention whether your goal is to learn the melody in one key or many. Do you want to also learn to transpose?

[Jazzdvd]

i appreciate the replys but actually my question is from a technical standpoint i realize the importance of phrashing and feel but i''m just asking whats the best way to master a melody on the fretboard.Like i said some guys say 3 octaves other guys say in as many different positions as you can...i just wanted to know the best approach... guys like joe pass and jim hall were players who seem to know the melody in more than one area.

[Jonzo]

If you take some tunes of similar difficulty and learn each using a different method, for the same amount of time, you will know what works best for you.

[dingusmingus]

I use five positions (basically a derivative of the CAGED position). I try to learn licks and many melodies in all five positions. Usually, only a few are optimal, but working it out in many places forces me to learn it well. I end up learning it functionally (that is, by scale degree rather than note name or physical position on the fretboard), which also allows me to transpose also.

As I started to really get my scales down all over the neck, this got easier.

[ecj]

My view is that there are really only three basic positions on the guitar, and that those positions can be moved around through string groupings and octaves. So, you basically have a position where the bass note of the home key is fingered by the pinky or third finger, a position where the bass note is fingered by the second finger, and a position where the bass note is fingered by the first finger.

If you can get your brain thinking about the shift of the B-string, you can just shift those fingerings around anywhere you need them.

So, when I'm learning a melody I try it in each of the three positions. Then I take the one that feels most comfortable, and move the melody through all 12 keys to get the basic interval patterning in my ears and fingers. That seems to work well for picking up things quickly. Transposition helps you start to see it as a pattern and not as a set fingering.

The other way I like to learn melodies when it's a tune that I'm going to play a lot is to correspond the fingerings to the chords beneath the melody. So, I kind of think of the chord/melody in the back of my mind even though I'm only playing the melody note. The fingerings tend to not be as intuitive, and it doesn't work well for up-tempo bop stuff, but it helps me correspond the melody more to the underlying harmony and make improvising and ornamentation easier. Really useful for ballads, bossas, etc.

[vintagelove]

Depends on the melody.

Tenor Madness, sure learn it in a few places.

Donna Lee, find a fingering and practice it until you can play it at 100000000bpm.


Either way, listening helps.

Good luck!!!

[nick1994]

I've always found internalizing the melody the hardest. Learn the lyrics, learn to sing it, learn to play it all over the neck and transcribe singers versions of it. For me, you've got to internalise it.

[Reg]

As Jonzo said... your talking about two different skills.

Learning a melody... is just that, your memorizing the melody and all the BS that goes with that melody.

Being able to play that melody in different keys is a different skill...
Being able to develop that melody is also a different skill...

Basically once you've memorized... learned the melody, what you do with that melody becomes other somewhat technical skills.

Being able to play the melody in different keys is a technical skill, transposing, It becomes easier when you develop the skills required to transpose. Memorizing the melody in different keys is just that, memorization, almost like learning a new tune.

Many players, especially single note players practice melodies in all keys... which become a technical practice, they know the melody and are using that memorized melody to work on their transposing skills and general musicianship on their instrument.

There are different approaches to playing in general...

The practice and beat it into yourself, the internalization approach, which works great. The problem is everything you learn is somewhat like a new project.

The other approach is to understand what your trying to internalize. This requires development of musicianship and the overall skills of your instrument... this also works.

The advantage of the second approach is that once you develop the skills, the internalization becomes very simple, because you understand what your trying to internalize. Your just plugging and playing, very little memorization is needed.

In the end most use both approaches with whatever balance works for them.

[bako]

Intervals are the building blocks of many things including melodies.

Different relationships:

1. Each note to the key center(s).
2. All adjacent note intervals.
3. Notes in relation to the harmony of the moment.

Cultivate melodic/harmonic interval awareness.
Recognize the sound and know the fingering possibilities.

I believe this is part of what Reg is talking about in "the other approach", along with
developing the physical skills to play what you know and what you can hear.

[dingusmingus]

The other approach is to understand what your trying to internalize. This requires development of musicianship and the overall skills of your instrument... this also works.

The advantage of the second approach is that once you develop the skills, the internalization becomes very simple, because you understand what your trying to internalize. Your just plugging and playing, very little memorization is needed.

Interesting Reg. Could you please say a little more about what you mean by "understand what you're trying to internalize?" Do you mean understand the relation of the melody to the chords/tonality of the tune? Or did you have something more general in mind?

[targuit]

Just my opinion, but the 'difficulty' of learning a melody is often overstated a bit. Obviously the relative difficulty of learning a new song depends partly on one's skill level as a player and also on the intrinsic nature of the song itself. I find that if I can sing the song's melody, I can play it as well, though to develop and elaborate on the melody requires more improvisatory skill and taste.

As regards the intrinsic difficulty of the melody in terms of playing or even singing it, that varies with the tune. Some are indeed more odd or difficult than others which just flow easier. I tend to like lyrical music which usually is not 'hard' to sing beyond technical leaps like the octave leaps in Over The Rainbow, for example. But most of us can easily learn or spontaneously sing the melody to that song. Execution on guitar is another thing. I find creating solo arrangements to be more challenging than just stating the melody. The harmony is what creates the musical interest in my opinion. As for playing in x number of positions, ultimately you should be capable of playing any song you know in any key on the fly. That is part of experience.

In terms of various positions on the fret board, I use the whole fretboard "without prejudice" - I go where my ears and the melody/harmony take me. I'm trying to arrange a video version of a Christmas song - Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas - in the key of A as a split screen performance video with a rhythm and lead guitar tracks plus an added vocal. As I work out the technical details of using my MacBook to record the videos while recording "live" to my Tascam DR-05, I tested recording the guitar track videos directly on the Mac. Both the rhythm and lead tracks utilize the entire fretboard up to the fourteenth fret or so. But generally the melody is where you hear it in terms of the pitch range.

Jay

[docbop]

Been rereading the Mile book and he talks about playing melody and phrasing. Besides instrumentalists he also listen to Frank Sinatra and Orsen Wells because the way they phrased. Many public speaking trainers suggest to listen to Sinatra for timing and phrasing.

[ecj]

Been rereading the Mile book and he talks about playing melody and phrasing. Besides instrumentalists he also listen to Frank Sinatra and Orsen Wells because the way they phrased. Many public speaking trainers talk suggest to listen to Sinatra for timing and phrasing.

Sinatra was insanely good. His phrasing and groove are absolutely perfect.

[Jonzo]

Been rereading the Mile book and he talks about playing melody and phrasing. Besides instrumentalists he also listen to Frank Sinatra and Orsen Wells because the way they phrased. Many public speaking trainers suggest to listen to Sinatra for timing and phrasing.

Nothing swings like a well-crafted PowerPoint presentation.

[ColinO]

Many public speaking trainers suggest to listen to Sinatra for timing and phrasing.

That is cool. There is something about great public speakers that is special and I bet it has some relationship to music. I wonder if there is some comparative analysis. I think that would be very interesting.

[targuit]

Listened to Wave - lovely melodic phrasing both piano and sax. I like that approach. Slow gets to the guts of the song.

Jay

[edh]

Went and checked out Four. Xclnt arrangement. First time I've heard of this fellow. I like what I hear.


Thanks for posting.

[Reg]

Interesting Reg. Could you please say a little more about what you mean by "understand what you're trying to internalize?" Do you mean understand the relation of the melody to the chords/tonality of the tune? Or did you have something more general in mind?

Sure... So what is mastering a Melody, right. Memorizing and being able to perform... or understanding what the melody implied musically etc...

Personally both, The memorization aspect is simple, right.... as long as you have the performance skills, you use whatever memorization technique you choose and memorize.

You don't really need to understand anything, through trial and error you begin to be able to apply what you already can hear and your performance techniques... you create relationships with the memorized melody, develop etc...

The other approach... being aware of what your playing. Generally begins with "Forms of", and very mechanical spatial aspects of the music. Melodies generally imply other aspects of music.

Ex... the melody fits into a AABA or whatever Form.
That melody fits into harmonic Forms, in that AABA Form, if the tune is a Bop tune, the melody fits in and uses as a reference... rhythm changes.

There are rhythmic forms... patterns which use and reflect the harmony.

Long story short... most tunes are collections of basic Plug and Play mechanical aspects of music... with personal touches.

Once you see through the personal touches... there's not that much to memorize.

Obviously there are many exceptions etc... but 80% 20% general rule usually applies.

[dingusmingus]

Sorry for the slow response--this is helpful Reg, thanks!

[docbop]

Went and checked out Four. Xclnt arrangement. First time I've heard of this fellow. I like what I hear.


Thanks for posting.

I just bought both the albums the one with A Train and the live one with Four. Sherman's tone and phrasing is great, going to be listening to those albums a lot.

[jtizzle]

I play a melody where I like to hear it. Depending on the situation and context, octave placement matters. Modern contexts have basic quintets (piano, bass drums, guitar, horn) play the melody in the upper octave, around 10th position top strings, together with the horn. Trio contexts demand a lower octave.

I studied with Mike Moreno for a bit, he made me play everything in 3rd position, mid range. I don't agree with that per se. The more informed your ears are with a tune, the more tasteful you'll be when you play it. Listen to a lot of recordings and copy the way someone you like played it. Doesn't have to be a guy from the past. You might like the way someone like Seamus Blake plays a melody over the way Charlie Parker played the melody to the same tune.

[dingusmingus]

Doesn't have to be a guy from the past. You might like the way someone like Seamus Blake plays a melody over the way Charlie Parker played the melody to the same tune.

Man it's refreshing to hear that on this forum!