Fake Book suggestions

[rpjazzguitar]

There isn't universal agreement about what the "correct changes" are.

There are stories about musicians going to the NY Public Library looking for original sheet music. Gotta be the "correct changes" right?

What if the composer didn't play those on the earliest recording?

There is video of George Gershwin himself playing I Got Rhythm. Correct changes? He's playing with a band. It could have been an arrangement for that band and he might have played it differently solo, or small group. And, the bop guys who popularized the changes didn't play it exactly like Gershwin. And, they didn't play it the same on every chorus.

And, then, of course, there are different recordings of the same tune. Even if everybody transcribes everything perfectly, which is overly optimistic, people may assume that the version they know if the version everybody else should know.

I'm thinking about a tune for which there is an original recording and several performances by the composer with different bands. Every one is different. There's a tendency for some players to assume that the version they learned from one of them, or maybe the original recording, is the true and correct version, which, it seems to me, is saying the composer doesn't know his own tune.

For players with big ears, these differences are resolved on the fly, with one player, often the pianist, taking the lead. For mere mortals, it's useful for everybody to have the same book, and the Leonard books have supplanted the Berklee RB.

[Christian Miller]

There isn't universal agreement about what the "correct changes" are.

There are stories about musicians going to the NY Public Library looking for original sheet music. Gotta be the "correct changes" right?

What if the composer didn't play those on the earliest recording?

There is video of George Gershwin himself playing I Got Rhythm. Correct changes? He's playing with a band. It could have been an arrangement for that band and he might have played it differently solo, or small group. And, the bop guys who popularized the changes didn't play it exactly like Gershwin. And, they didn't play it the same on every chorus.

And, then, of course, there are different recordings of the same tune. Even if everybody transcribes everything perfectly, which is overly optimistic, people may assume that the version they know if the version everybody else should know.

I'm thinking about a tune for which there is an original recording and several performances by the composer with different bands. Every one is different. There's a tendency for some players to assume that the version they learned from one of them, or maybe the original recording, is the true and correct version, which, it seems to me, is saying the composer doesn't know his own tune.

For players with big ears, these differences are resolved on the fly, with one player, often the pianist, taking the lead. For mere mortals, it's useful for everybody to have the same book, and the Leonard books have supplanted the Berklee RB.

Depends who you hang with. Some people care a lot about this stuff.

And while there might not be a right set of changes, there are definitely changes that are regarded as bad by the better straightahead players. The RB changes tend to come in for a bit of stick.

But if you are a casual player, who cares I guess?

Tbh it’s never been easier to do your homework. So what’s my excuse lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Christian Miller]

Thanks for all the comments - I have an old Hal Leonard ‘Real Jazz Book’ from the 90s which prompted the OP - wanted something to practice sight reading and harmonization and there were too many fusion tunes and it seemed the chords were over- complex (subs and written-out extensions)

mostly I use MuseScore and other PDF sources, but wanted a physical book to read through

ordered the Sher Standards Real Book, will see how that goes

I think Shers ok.

I have the Dick Hyman book. That’s out of print though

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[garybaldy]

Not really, the authoritative source is the recordings, but even those can be fluid. Jazz isn't about playing the same changes chorus after chorus, a turnaround is a turnaround and I VI II V can easily be subbed for III VI II V or a long II V or just a static V, or VII bVII VI bVII V.

Also, Pettiford changed the melody of Tricotism a little bit every time he recorded it. So even if you "correct" the Real Book against a recording, you don't guarantee you have the tune right because right is fluid.

I Don't get the VII bVII VI bVII V

[AllanAllen]

Oops, it should say

VII bVII VI V

[rpjazzguitar]

Depends who you hang with. Some people care a lot about this stuff.

And while there might not be a right set of changes, there are definitely changes that are regarded as bad by the better straightahead players. The RB changes tend to come in for a bit of stick.

But if you are a casual player, who cares I guess?

Tbh it’s never been easier to do your homework. So what’s my excuse lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Recently, groups I jam with have been spending more time than ever figuring out which chart to play. There can be multiple electronic versions of a tune -- and there have been "discussions" about which one to play. And, then, not everybody always has an Ipad, so paper copies have to be on hand or printed out. I play with a couple of guys who like to make their own versions of charts -- and who don't always agree on the details about how they are engraved.

To be clear, these are not jams where we play tunes everybody might reasonably be expected to know. Players are tired of those. So everybody invited can read and people are bringing out less common tunes -- and there are still often multiple versions.

Back when I started playing jams where reading was expected, everybody had the original Berklee RB, we probably accepted some bad changes, and, somehow, we had fun anyway. We didn't spend a lot of time discussing the chart, except maybe the page number.

So, heaven forbid if everybody does their homework! When somebody has taken the trouble to take changes off a recording, good luck convincing them to play different changes. It may be easier if one guy does the HW for everybody. It's not always the changes - often, it's basic roadmap.

As far as different changes go, I may not know which unfamiliar chord the pianist just introduced into the tune, but I can probably tell if I'm not playing it. And, I can probably hear a note or two and do something with it, if there's time. Players who do that don't necessarily play the same thing in the next chorus, so it's an adventure.

Different for gigs, maybe. But most of the gigs I go to, I see people reading and I don't hear a lot of standards. That said, in the very best shows, people aren't likely to be reading.

[pamosmusic]

I have seriously considered running a blueses only jam session. Which I think would rule.

[ragman1]

Looking for a single fakebook with only GASB standards and bebop heads to practice from with bare minimum but correct chord changes - any suggestions?

I doubt if there's a single one. And 'correct' chord changes, if there are any, are rarely bare minimum because jazz is complex. You're going to have to do what we all do which is research your tunes carefully.

Sorry about that!

[Danny W.]

I have eight paper fake books and an ever-expanding number of electronic ones. None of them is perfect. The original Real Books was something of a mess--the Sixth is much improved. Books 2 & 3 of the Sher books are stuffed with filler, tunes no one will ever ask to play, some of which have multiple parts for piano & bass. My very first bound one, which the union rep sold me out of the trunk of his car in 1962, was this:



This is a certifiably execrable book, but I was really glad to have it with me in 1966 when a vibes player and I started playing nightly 2-hour sets in a Canal Zone officer's club that morphed into 400 4-hour sextet gigs over the time I was there. I still have it, although I haven't touched it in decades

In the first decade of this century I found myself leading a weekly jazz jam. I stopped in Borders just to look around their music section, where they had multiple copies of this:

Just Jazz Real Book: | Sheet MusicBS/

and bought them all. Any regular in my jam had to have one and I had extra copies on hand for drop-ins. I liked this book because it was very legibly printed and laid out, had excellent changes, with lyrics and verses to tunes that had them, and most important, had an excellent mix of tunes. It's still my favorite of the ones I own.

Danny W.

[pamosmusic]

Holy mother.

$35 in 1962 is STEEP

[Danny W.]

The cover price was fake too—the rep charged $5.

[AllanAllen]

The cover price was fake too—the rep charged $5.

Smart, put $35 on the cover and a drunk at the seedy bar will steal it. Then you’ll have to buy another $5 book.

[rpjazzguitar]

I bought that book in 1964. I can’t remember what I paid. It was probably five or $10. At the time minimum wage was $1.15 an hour so $35 was in fact quite a steep price. I remember thinking that $35 was out of the question. I still have the book.

It was three songs to a page based on index card images. One of the positive things about the book was that the songs had lyrics.

[Christian Miller]

Recently, groups I jam with have been spending more time than ever figuring out which chart to play. There can be multiple electronic versions of a tune -- and there have been "discussions" about which one to play. And, then, not everybody always has an Ipad, so paper copies have to be on hand or printed out. I play with a couple of guys who like to make their own versions of charts -- and who don't always agree on the details about how they are engraved.

To be clear, these are not jams where we play tunes everybody might reasonably be expected to know. Players are tired of those. So everybody invited can read and people are bringing out less common tunes -- and there are still often multiple versions.

Back when I started playing jams where reading was expected, everybody had the original Berklee RB, we probably accepted some bad changes, and, somehow, we had fun anyway. We didn't spend a lot of time discussing the chart, except maybe the page number.

So, heaven forbid if everybody does their homework! When somebody has taken the trouble to take changes off a recording, good luck convincing them to play different changes. It may be easier if one guy does the HW for everybody. It's not always the changes - often, it's basic roadmap.

As far as different changes go, I may not know which unfamiliar chord the pianist just introduced into the tune, but I can probably tell if I'm not playing it. And, I can probably hear a note or two and do something with it, if there's time. Players who do that don't necessarily play the same thing in the next chorus, so it's an adventure.

Different for gigs, maybe. But most of the gigs I go to, I see people reading and I don't hear a lot of standards. That said, in the very best shows, people aren't likely to be reading.

It depends. I think as you get more into standards the songs and the interpretation of songs become more important.

But for many the song is more of a gateway to improvisation in chord changes.

At some jams I can expect to play the Real Book versions of things. At others, you can end up in a 20 minute neurodivergent conversation about the first eight bars of Like Someone in Love

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[John A.]

I think people are greatly exaggerating the inaccuracies of the original Real Book. Between the 5th Edition and Volume II there are, what, 800 and some songs? A few are out and out wrong (e.g., the missing measures in Desafinado), a few are questionable re-harms or based on obscure versions, and there are (arguably) too many non-standard tunes that nobody ever plays. But I would guess 90%+ are correct and overall they were way better than most "legal" songbooks and sheet music you could get for a very long time. A good case can be made that the Sher and HL books are better, but if you stick with your old illegal ones (as many of us have done), it's not as if those cripple you as a musician. Credit where credit is due to those anonymous Berklee scribes. They did something that was actually quite remarkable.

[AllanAllen]

I think people are greatly exaggerating the inaccuracies of the original Real Book. Between the 5th Edition and Volumes II there are, what, 800 and some songs? A few are out and out wrong (e.g., the missing measures in Desafinado), a few are questionable re-harms or based on obscure versions, and there are (arguably) too many non-standard tunes that nobody ever plays. But I would guess 90%+ are correct and overall they were way better than most "legal" songbooks and sheet music you could get for a very long time. A good case can be made that the Sher and HL books are better, but if you stick with your old illegal ones (as many of us have done), it's not as if those cripple you as a musician. Credit where credit is due to those anonymous Berklee scribes. They did something that was actually quite remarkable.

Look, if the youtubers don't trash the real book as unreliable and full of errors, how else are they supposed to get people to subscribe to their Secret Circle Jazz Study Group Patreon?

And if forum users don't parrot what the youtubers told them, what are we going to talk about? Our own thoughts? That's scary, better to have AI tell me what I think.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I would guess 90%+ are correct and overall they were way better than most "legal" songbooks and sheet music you could get for a very long time.

I agree with most of what you say, John. But my experience with sheet music from the big publishers is that they’re pretty much all from the original copyrighted scores and are quite correct. I probably have 100+ tunes in that form, most of which were bought by my parents. They’re all piano scores, and they’re complete with intros for tunes that had them.

[Christian Miller]

I think people are greatly exaggerating the inaccuracies of the original Real Book. Between the 5th Edition and Volume II there are, what, 800 and some songs? A few are out and out wrong (e.g., the missing measures in Desafinado), a few are questionable re-harms or based on obscure versions, and there are (arguably) too many non-standard tunes that nobody ever plays. But I would guess 90%+ are correct and overall they were way better than most "legal" songbooks and sheet music you could get for a very long time. A good case can be made that the Sher and HL books are better, but if you stick with your old illegal ones (as many of us have done), it's not as if those cripple you as a musician. Credit where credit is due to those anonymous Berklee scribes. They did something that was actually quite remarkable.

What will of course cripple you as a musician is not using one's lugholes. All these sources are best used in combination with critical listening.

Anyway 5th Edition is not available these days. I have a copy that's lost about 20 pages including the erata lol. I use it for sight reading practice - I like the obscure 70s fusion charts. I also have digital versions of all of them.

The more you get into the standards repertoire the more there is to quibble about. Where there aren't always obvious mistakes (plenty of those of course in the old illegal one), the changes might be described as serviceable. Sometimes the bass motion is a bit ugly. Some slightly ropey symbols, etc.

The Sher Real Books are generally very accurate - allowing for stylistic editorial decisions (they don't tend to use the original songbook changes but the common practice jazz changes etc). I haven't really looked at the 6th Ed RB. I have a student who has it, and it seems fine.

[Christian Miller]

I have eight paper fake books and an ever-expanding number of electronic ones. None of them is perfect. The original Real Books was something of a mess--the Sixth is much improved. Books 2 & 3 of the Sher books are stuffed with filler, tunes no one will ever ask to play, some of which have multiple parts for piano & bass.

What? You don't spend your Sunday afternoon cafe gigs blasting through Loxodrome, Some Skunk Funk and Chromazone?

(You will learn to play Spain perfectly though.)

There is a Sher standards book BTW.

My very first bound one, which the union rep sold me out of the trunk of his car in 1962, was this:



This is a certifiably execrable book, but I was really glad to have it with me in 1966 when a vibes player and I started playing nightly 2-hour sets in a Canal Zone officer's club that morphed into 400 4-hour sextet gigs over the time I was there. I still have it, although I haven't touched it in decades

In the first decade of this century I found myself leading a weekly jazz jam. I stopped in Borders just to look around their music section, where they had multiple copies of this:

Just Jazz Real Book: | Sheet MusicBS/

and bought them all. Any regular in my jam had to have one and I had extra copies on hand for drop-ins. I liked this book because it was very legibly printed and laid out, had excellent changes, with lyrics and verses to tunes that had them, and most important, had an excellent mix of tunes. It's still my favorite of the ones I own.

Danny W.

Cool! What a historical document. Be interested to see what it's like.

[PMB]

In the first decade of this century I found myself leading a weekly jazz jam. I stopped in Borders just to look around their music section, where they had multiple copies of this:

Just Jazz Real Book: | Sheet MusicBS/

and bought them all. Any regular in my jam had to have one and I had extra copies on hand for drop-ins. I liked this book because it was very legibly printed and laid out, had excellent changes, with lyrics and verses to tunes that had them, and most important, had an excellent mix of tunes. It's still my favorite of the ones I own.

Danny W.

The Just Jazz Real Book often gets overlooked in these discussions but it's one of the best out there for all the reasons you stated.

[rpjazzguitar]

Look, if the youtubers don't trash the real book as unreliable and full of errors, how else are they supposed to get people to subscribe to their Secret Circle Jazz Study Group Patreon?

And if forum users don't parrot what the youtubers told them, what are we going to talk about? Our own thoughts? That's scary, better to have AI tell me what I think.

I have the original 70s book I photocopied back then. I also have a 1994 errata, which contains changes to 100 or so tunes (eyeballing it).

Some of the corrections are minor. For example, an F#o instead of Fm in All of Me. I think they both work. Others look like simple typos, like the wrong ii V in a turnaround.

In hindsight, we seem to talk about the errors more than the stuff that was right. But, back then, it was a major stepping stone to being able to work on jazz repertoire. So many good tunes in one book. It would lay flat. Easy typeface to read. Interesting tune selection (and yes, I have played Some Skunk Funk out of this book).

[Mick-7]

Looking for a single fakebook with only GASB standards and bebop heads to practice from with bare minimum but correct chord changes - any suggestions?

By the way, a collection of digital fake books is posted here, choose your poison: Digital Fake Books

[sgcim]

"the authoritative source is Ralph Patt's "The Vanilla Book.""

Is this true?

It depends what you're looking for. TVB only has chord changes, no melodies. The chord changes rarely go beyond seventh chords, with maybe a few ninth chords thrown in. The songs are just standards and bop tunes with a few Trane and Joe Henderson songs.

The best part of the Ralph Patt site is the Backing Tracks part where a trio plays the acc.metronomically at tempos like 320bpm so you can keep your chops in shape on tunes like Indiana (Donna Lee) Cherokee 340bpm. etc...

[djg]

The Just Jazz Real Book often gets overlooked in these discussions but it's one of the best out there for all the reasons you stated.

maybe not very known overseas, but one of the best one imo is 557 standards, aka the yugoslavian fake book. it came out in the early 90s and was a relevation for all RB owners. mostly good changes and no berklee filler songs. i also have a soft spot for grilles de jazz.

[garybaldy]

Sorry if this has been added already.
You can down load lead sheets in correct keys for trumpets etc as well as concert. Partitions gratuites. Real Book - Volume 1, 2, 3(C, Eb, Bb)