Converting to minor

[Strat-itis]

I’m mad at the bot.

I would live my life with nary a care about ChatGPT's absence.

I know you guys are mad at the bot.

Thanks for proving my point.

You no want to listen to a master's explanation?

[Christian Miller]

I know you guys are mad at the bot.

You no want to listen to a master's explanation?

Chat GPT is slightly more reliable than most JGO members, but MUCH less entertaining.

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[AllanAllen]

Chat GPT is slightly more reliable than most JGO members, but MUCH less entertaining.

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It’s probably training itself on JGO.

[pamosmusic]

It’s probably training itself on JGO.

I mean ... literally

[Strat-itis]

Chat GPT is slightly more reliable than most JGO members, but MUCH less entertaining.

I don't agree at all.

Bot: right 75% of the time.
JGO: wrong 75% of the time.

Bot: makes me crack up almost daily where my neighbors hear it.
JGO: continual not funny or barely funny self-aggrandizing quips.

[rpjazzguitar]

I just used ChatGPT5 to plan a Senior Living show. It "understood" the kind of show I was asking for and made a number of excellent suggestions about how to make it more of a show than a set of tunes. It suggested, without being told, a number of tunes I already had picked, which was reassuring. Yes, it also makes egregious errors. But what it does strikes me as astonishing.

[pamosmusic]

I don't agree at all.

Bot: right 75% of the time.
JGO: wrong 75% of the time.

Bot: makes me crack up almost daily where my neighbors hear it.
JGO: continual not funny or barely funny self-aggrandizing quips.

... so maybe JGO is training itself on the bot, rather than the other way around?

[Strat-itis]

[olliehalsall]

Imagine if Holdsworth had had ChatGPT5 to compile his 'reams of notes' to get permutations of melodic minor modes.

[Christian Miller]

It’s probably training itself on JGO.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


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[Christian Miller]

... so maybe JGO is training itself on the bot, rather than the other way around?

This seems likely


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[GuyBoden]

I like his demonstration of the minor triad shape and how you can alter that accordingly to suit. I like running that shape up and down the fretboard myself. Also, I read somewhere that Django was fond of using this as an all-purpose shape too - the way his left hand was formed it was an easy grip for him?

If you liked the video, you should get the whole Pat Martino course, it's on TrueFire for $24.99.

Here's the link:
Pat Martino's The Nature of Guitar - Guitar Lessons - TrueFire

[ragman1]

And good luck with that :-)

[kris]

If you liked the video, you should get the whole Pat Martino course, it's on TrueFire for $24.99.

Here's the link:
Pat Martino's The Nature of Guitar - Guitar Lessons - TrueFire

[olliehalsall]

That was quite clear up until 3:45 lol.
Let's see if I've understood this right:A7 (b9b13) - he uses the Bb minor arpeggio, Bb being the b9 of the dominant A7?
Cmin7 (b5) - he uses an EB minor arpeggio, which ties in with related b5th of the dominant A7 arpeggio?

[ragman1]

That's not how minor conversion works. It's not something applied willy-nilly over a whole progression or tune, it wouldn't sound right. It's applied where it makes sense and augments the feel of the music.

We do it anyway with the blues when the I7 chord changes to the IV7. Usually you have, for a Bb blues, Bb13 to Eb9. It's common practice to play Bb over the Bb13 then Bbm over the Eb9, right? That's a minor conversion, correctly applied.

The same principle applies to any other tune once one knows how to do it. It can become more complex when alt harmonies are involved but it's not at all as crazy as this theoretical stuff makes it look. That just sells books :-)

[ragman1]

Let's see if I've understood this right:A7 (b9b13) - he uses the Bb minor arpeggio, Bb being the b9 of the dominant A7?
Cmin7 (b5) - he uses an EB minor arpeggio, which ties in with related b5th of the dominant A7 arpeggio?

It's got you going already. See above :-)

[ragman1]

ollie -

An A7b9b13 is just an A7alt chord, so use the A7alt scale which is Bb melodic minor. That's standard practice.

For Cm7b5 play (from the 3rd of the chord) Eb melodic minor. Also standard practice.

[kris]

That was quite clear up until 3:45 lol.
Let's see if I've understood this right:A7 (b9b13) - he uses the Bb minor arpeggio, Bb being the b9 of the dominant A7?
Cmin7 (b5) - he uses an EB minor arpeggio, which ties in with related b5th of the dominant A7 arpeggio?

PM "Linear Expressions" is one of the best books I"ve bought.
If someone wants to develop musically, must have this book in the collection.
Just having a book doesn't mean anything - you just need to know how to use it and practice.

[ragman1]

Ollie -

By the way, at 3.45, it says play Am arpeggio* over CM7#11. That's not right, there's no B or F# in it. Try Bm7 arpeggio - B D F#A. That's right.

* A melodic minor would do it but it's not so effective. Try it out.

[olliehalsall]

ollie -

An A7b9b13 is just an A7alt chord, so use the A7alt scale which is Bb melodic minor. That's standard practice.

For Cm7b5 play (from the 3rd of the chord) Eb melodic minor. Also standard practice.

Thank you, that makes a lot of (common) sense

[ragman1]

Thank you, that makes a lot of (common) sense

Exactly, that's the whole point.

[pamosmusic]

That's not how minor conversion works. It's not something applied willy-nilly over a whole progression or tune, it wouldn't sound right. It's applied where it makes sense and augments the feel of the music.

Pat for sure applies it over a whole tune.

[pamosmusic]

That was quite clear up until 3:45 lol.
Let's see if I've understood this right:A7 (b9b13) - he uses the Bb minor arpeggio, Bb being the b9 of the dominant A7?
Cmin7 (b5) - he uses an EB minor arpeggio, which ties in with related b5th of the dominant A7 arpeggio?

I think worrying about the "why" is where you get bogged down in theory:

Major -- play minor off the sixth
Minor -- play minor off the root
Inside dominant -- play minor off the fifth (you play the ii chord over the V)
Outside dominant -- play minor up a half step (the ii chord that would be related to the tritone sub)
Half diminished -- play minor off the (flat) third

If you really really want to know the why -- then you're just kind of doing upper structure stuff (C Eb Gb Bb so you play Ebm over the C half diminished), but that bit is only tangentially important. Part of the distinctive sound is that Pat really doesn't seem to care much about that. For example, the specific minor sound -- maybe Am/maj7 over C6 -- doesn't need to fit over the specific chord of the moment. The goal here is to be able to just go all out on more and more killer minor vocabulary that you can use in any context, rather than to learn how to navigate a bunch of chords at the expense of accumulating vocabulary.

[olliehalsall]

I think worrying about the "why" is where you get bogged down in theory:

Major -- play minor off the sixth
Minor -- play minor off the root
Inside dominant -- play minor off the fifth (you play the ii chord over the V)
Outside dominant -- play minor up a half step (the ii chord that would be related to the tritone sub)
Half diminished -- play minor off the (flat) third

If you really really want to know the why -- then you're just kind of doing upper structure stuff (C Eb Gb Bb so you play Ebm over the C half diminished), but that bit is only tangentially important. Part of the distinctive sound is that Pat really doesn't seem to care much about that. For example, the specific minor sound -- maybe Am/maj7 over C6 -- doesn't need to fit over the specific chord of the moment. The goal here is to be able to just go all out on more and more killer minor vocabulary that you can use in any context, rather than to learn how to navigate a bunch of chords at the expense of accumulating vocabulary.

Yet more common sense, thanks so much