Some guidance needed!

[Sacred_summit]

Hey guys, I hope everyone had a wonderful weekend. I'm hoping some of you can answer a few questions I have not been able to figure out, and offer some guidance. Quick background, I played tenor saxophone for years (Jazz). Upon moving into a condo I switched to the flute as the saxophone was too loud... Again I played jazz. Thus I have a decent background in jazz, chord structure, improvisation etc. A year and a half ago I went through a major surgery for sleep apnea, I had a complication with one of the incisions inside of my mouth below my bottom teeth and was not able to play saxophone or flute to this day... About 6 weeks ago I realized I'll no longer be able to play an instrument requiring an embouchure, and if I want to get back into music I have to learn an entirely new instrument.

I sold my flute (For a small fortune!) and picked up an acoustic guitar, thinking I'd play chords and sing - My girlfriend is learning the guitar, and I had a blast learning songs and cowboy chords, then I'd teach her how to play them. I have a pretty strong practice regime, so I learned quickly.

I started learning about the fretboard, what's possible on the guitar, and I had a lightbulb moment! I could play some wicked jazz / blues with this thing! I looked up jazz guitar with keen interest and fell in love with what I heard. I took back the acoustic and bought a Gibson 335 (I love this thing!)

I have (Or I thought I have) a good understanding of where I need to start practicing in order to develop the technical skills on the guitar needed to play the music in my head, but I've come across a few things that have confused me and I hope you can help me understand a little better.

In addition, if anybody has some additional pointers, that would be rather helpful!

I'd like to note, I have access to Ultimate Guitars & Full access to all of there music books. (There are dozens of jazz and blues guitar music books to go through)

As far as practice goes, I have the time atm to practice 4-6 hours a day most days, so I can put in the work to learn this beautiful instrument in hopes of one day playing jazz like I did on the horn (I was at one point gig ready, and I miss playing for people in public dearly)

My first big question is as follows.

I've been learning my major scale patterns, and I play them from the first fret to the last. At first I just blindly worked on the 5 patterns I've attached in the photos below which I found in Hal Leonard Guitar Method:Jazz Guitar.

I go over these daily, and I slowly work my speed up with a metronome Always! Always using a metronome.

I recently starting thinking about doing the same thing with 7th scales and Minor 7th scales. It's simple enough to just play the portrayed scales by lowering the 3rd and 7th note. I noticed further in the book, they show two specific scale patterns for this (I've attached a photo)

I'm lost as to which scale patterns to focus on when practicing Dorian and Mixolydian scales... There are three patterns in the one photo that I've been playing as a major scale, plus a 4th pattern of 3 notes per string, and a 5th pattern of 4 notes per string. Then there are two patterns listed in the other photo specifically for Dorian and Mixolydian that also differ. In a nut shell, what the hell?...

When it comes time to improvise, is there a particular scale pattern that works best? and for a certain reason? Should I just focus on the two patterns in the one photo where the route of the 6th string, or the route of the 5th string are on the first note when playing my Dorian and Mixolydian scales? Or should I continue playing the other 3 or even 5 patterns in the other photos I've attached but modifying them with a flat 3rd and 7th? To clear things up, pattern one has the route on the second note 6th string. Pattern 2 has the route on the 3rd note string 5, pattern 3 has the note on the 3rd note of the 6th string. Then there is the 3 notes per string, and the 4 notes per string.

What patterns should I focus my attention on at the moment with my practice Dorian and Mixolydian. The two patterns where the first note is on the root in the one photo, or the 3 major scale patterns in the other photo? the 3 and 4 notes per string?


- Secondary question. I've spent time learning my pentatonic scale and the 5 shapes moving up the fretboard. It's fun for sure! but limiting, and I'm wondering how often if at all people even use it when playing blues and jazz. Or if they stick to the chords and scales over the chord changes. Gm7 chord, I'd always solo using a Gm7 scale + some chromatic notes for color.

Thank you so much for your help!

I've been practicing for hours upon hours upon hours since I got my electric (Thankfully I had wicked calluses built up already from the month I played acoustic) but I'm now wondering if I'm no longer practicing the right things to get me to where I want to go. And why are there so many dang scale patterns anyways? Remember I'm a saxophone guy.

P.S - I have Ti Jazzy Bebop 13g strings on my 335 and love them!!! I'm also using a Katana 100 MK2 amp, I've bought a few excellent patches I love.

[Mick-7]

"Again I played jazz. Thus I have a decent background in jazz, chord structure, improvisation etc."

Seems your post has been overlooked.... With your background, sounds to me like you are trying to reinvent the wheel. The knowledge you already have from playing sax can and should be applied to the guitar.

Practice whatever you practiced to be able to improvise on the sax, you just need to learn the fretboard so you can transfer your saxophone skills to it. Learning scales and basic chords will help you do that, and it sounds like you've been doing that, but I wouldn't go climbing down into the fretboard pattern rabbit-holes to which guitarists seem to be strangely attracted. One can waste a lot of time with that.

[pauln]

Nice elaborate post two and a half months ago.
Would be an interesting thread if he came back.
Does the forum do email alerts, if so is it default?

[Mick-7]

Nice elaborate post two and a half months ago. Would be an interesting thread if he came back.
Does the forum do email alerts, if so is it default?

I'm supposing that someone who would write such a detailed post will return - but then l'm an optimist.

[AlexOT]

I hope the OP is still practicing!!

My only comment would be to lower the pressure on yourself. The guitar, for beginners and amateurs, can be an intense experience for 4-6 hours a day. Some people even stop playing all together, just because they practice too much starting out!! You don't want that, it should be a fun part of your daily routine, not a large task. For your health, a well lighted room, good chair (or stand up straight and comfortable) and strap, because the ergonomic can be a bit difficult to manage for long periods in the beginning. Especially compared to practicing the flute.

Best of luck and keep that positive attitude!

[Reg]

Yea if the post is real... etc.

Op needs to learn all the standard Chords used to play in a jazz style, and then learn how to use Chord Patterns to take the place of those single chords.

Guitars are not single note instruments. Your going to actually learn and understand Harmony, Jazz Harmony.

As far as learning the fretboard.... it's a 12 fret repeating pattern. Either fingering organization will work getting there.... But after you get there...your going to use different fingerings for different sounds, styles etc.

The goal is being able to know... and able to use different fingerings within that 12 fret repeating pattern.

Personally I use 7 position... as my reference, but again that's just my Reference.

[emanresu]

Here is an app to make to make it easier: Fingerboard mapper 2000 ULTRA Turbo plus edit: when tinkering with MARKINGS. select single/double/stripe... and then click on the board. sorry. there is no note for it.

The books tend to lead you to learn stuff in their proven order and design (imho, the isolated diagrams are awful. but it is imho). The app is made to customize your own fretboard whays.

Do not trust me, but I think that learning one pattern in one spot leaves out 4 other usable patterns to learn later. Then, after learning those, you'd have to interconnect them all... it is messy.
I'd learn 3 patterns that touch each other and cover the full octave, get a general overview. Then add "fingerings" in the middle of those three while keeping the overview.
But do not trust me. For each their own.