Question for the resident physicist(s)

[Dennis D]

Seems interesting, thanks!
(My favourite cooking YT channel is that of "Cowboy Kent Rollins" ... for a slightly different kind of "high-tech" but lots of cast-iron!

As I mentioned above, my (Mauviel) copper sautée pan easily becomes a "spinner" when I heat it too quickly, even on my relatively slow halogen burners. The workaround is to preheat it with maybe 1cm of water which acts as a buffer. When it boils I know the pan is hot enough so I dump the water and pour in some oil (in the centre because the remaining water is gone there first )

A Mauviel - good going !
l'd like to have a 'statement' everyday pan I could always leave on my cooktop.....Staub has this enameled CI pan in this color and I may just have to pull the trigger.
I'd really like one about 9.5 in. covered, but no one makes one like that. Just not sure how forgiving pans are these days, w/seasonings, preheatings, maintenance etc etc etc.... Oh well......: )

[RJVB]

A Mauviel - good going !

My s.steel skillet is also a Mauviel - that one was a gift from me to my partner who found my 12" Staub skillet too heavy. The sautée pan sees a lot more use, the skillet is a little small and more or less reserved for baking acidic things that would attack the seasoning of my other skillets.

l'd like to have a 'statement' everyday pan I could always leave on my cooktop.....Staub has this enameled CI pan in this color and I may just have to pull the trigger.

Lovely colour indeed. Staub make very high quality cookware, a bit more "rustic" than Le Creuset but less so than Lodge. Their black enamel is very resistant and take seasoning quite well. But they're expensive even here; nowadays we buy from one of their subbrand outlets which still tend to be more expensive than Lodge's US prices.

I'd really like one about 9.5 in. covered, but no one makes one like that. Just not sure how forgiving pans are these days, w/seasonings, preheatings, maintenance etc etc etc.... Oh well......: )

You mean with a matching lid? Lodge are the only foundry who make CI lids for their skillet (I had one shipped from the US because nearly impossible to find here). They now also have a USA enamelled range, btw. And I'm pretty certain they have a 9" model (in the bare CI range at least).

The nice thing with CI skillets is that not much has changed compared to how it always was. It's really a vintage way of cooking, even if you do it on induction, but they're not for those who think cookware should be scrubbed of dishwasher-washed clean with an ample amount of detergent.

If you do get one of those beauties just remember that enamel *can* chip if you cook with steel utensils or cut meat on it without consideration or put it on the bottom of a pile of dirty dishes. And don't preheat them too fast on induction.

[Dennis D]

My s.steel skillet is also a Mauviel - that one was a gift from me to my partner who found my 12" Staub skillet too heavy. The sautée pan sees a lot more use, the skillet is a little small and more or less reserved for baking acidic things that would attack the seasoning of my other skillets.



Lovely colour indeed. Staub make very high quality cookware, a bit more "rustic" than Le Creuset but less so than Lodge. Their black enamel is very resistant and take seasoning quite well. But they're expensive even here; nowadays we buy from one of their subbrand outlets which still tend to be more expensive than Lodge's US prices.



You mean with a matching lid? Lodge are the only foundry who make CI lids for their skillet (I had one shipped from the US because nearly impossible to find here). They now also have a USA enamelled range, btw. And I'm pretty certain they have a 9" model (in the bare CI range at least).

The nice thing with CI skillets is that not much has changed compared to how it always was. It's really a vintage way of cooking, even if you do it on induction, but they're not for those who think cookware should be scrubbed of dishwasher-washed clean with an ample amount of detergent.

If you do get one of those beauties just remember that enamel *can* chip if you cook with steel utensils or cut meat on it without consideration or put it on the bottom of a pile of dirty dishes. And don't preheat them too fast on induction.

Thanks man, now that's a collection !
And of course I've been drawn big-time to that wood handle one. Both LeC and Staub still offer a variation. Are they practical or ?? I know you've got the ' wood doesn't go in the oven ' issue, but again, I like that look !

Thanks again for the info.

[RJVB]

Lol, yes, I'm running out of wall space to hang 'em

The wood handle one looks beautiful, with its thinner bottom it heats up quicker than the Lodge skillets, and the enamel means it's unlikely to rust plus you can leave food in it for the next day if you really want. Its rims are relatively low which can be a pro and a con, and the long handle isn't that practical TBH. It's nice to prevent burning your hands but it takes place and most of the time I find myself using a glove to hold the thing close to the body because it gets heavy. I have already made skillet pizzas in it though: the aluminium tip it's hanging from in the picture screws off and then the wood handle can be removed.

I used it for the past dinner and lunch to toast old baguette, cut into short chunks cut in half and with a light coating of "demi-sel" butter

[Dennis D]

Lol, yes, I'm running out of wall space to hang 'em

The wood handle one looks beautiful, with its thinner bottom it heats up quicker than the Lodge skillets, and the enamel means it's unlikely to rust plus you can leave food in it for the next day if you really want. Its rims are relatively low which can be a pro and a con, and the long handle isn't that practical TBH. It's nice to prevent burning your hands but it takes place and most of the time I find myself using a glove to hold the thing close to the body because it gets heavy. I have already made skillet pizzas in it though: the aluminium tip it's hanging from in the picture screws off and then the wood handle can be removed.

I used it for the past dinner and lunch to toast old baguette, cut into short chunks cut in half and with a light coating of "demi-sel" butter

Your wall looks like one of the old watering holes around here years ago.....CI pans hung on the walls just like that...It was called the 'Black Spider', and the name never made any sense to me 'til someone finally explained it to me one day......

Thanks again !

[RJVB]

Your wall looks like one of the old watering holes around here years ago.....CI pans hung on the walls just like that...It was called the 'Black Spider'

Lol (I think...)

Couldn't resist having a peak at Lodge's new USA-enamel collection. Pricey, and for now only Dutch ovens. Even the imported line doesn't have a skillet but does have something that could be used as a "2-handed skillet" and definitely has stovetop appeal:

[Dennis D]

.......And if you happen to have a pan w/this ' spider' logo, check out the value - -

Why This Cast-Iron Skillet Costs $8,000

...guess there's gold in them there chuck wagons ! : )

[wintermoon]

I just found a very old 12" Wagner cast iron skillet in beautiful condition at a thrift store for $9.95
just needs seasoning, can't wait to use it.
it's gonna displace the Lodge that I need to restore as well

[RJVB]

...guess there's gold in them there chuck wagons ! : )

Alchemists I'm telling you is what they were, old cookies!

[ragman1]

RJVB -

Anyway, having diagnosed the issue fairly scientifically, the question now is have you solved the problem in the kitchen? Is your oil still retreating to the outer limits of the skillet? We need to know!

[RJVB]

We need to know!

I suggest you start a new thread for that and try to deduce the answer fairly scientifically!

[ragman1]

I think I already know. I suspect you can't fight thermocapillary convection. Mind you, it apparently happens if you only use a small amount of oil so I'd up the oil level or reduce the heat.

See, the real point is that the retreating effect tends to leave a dry area in the middle where the heat's highest, possibly leading to burnt food. I'd be concerned more with that than anything else.

But apparently you think I'm just making silly remarks or something. I'm not, I do the cooking at home. Anyway, good luck. Have a nice Xmas :-)

[ragman1]

PS. All that fried stuff isn't good for you.

[RJVB]

Well, I'm clearly not the only one who had doubts about your contributions.

Of course I know the implications of the dry centre spot, if I wasn't concerned about that I wouldn't have bothered getting confirmation here about my understanding of the underlying physics princples at play.
I never leave my skillets alone while cooking, or make sure there's sufficient liquid (of any kind) and the heat is at an appropriate level to prevent carbonisation. I think I've described how I clean my skillets; I rarely need a brush to remove cooking residue.

[RJVB]

PS. All that fried stuff isn't good for you.

Life itself will kill you in the end.

(If only I didn't hate feeling fat I'd be eating into the cardiac arrest insurance against cancer and dementia )

[ragman1]

Well, I'm clearly not the only one who had doubts about your contributions.

Only Cliff, but he's rude so he doesn't count.

Of course I know the implications of the dry centre spot, if I wasn't concerned about that I wouldn't have bothered getting confirmation here about my understanding of the underlying physics princples at play.

Knowing the cause doesn't necessarily negate the effect.

I never leave my skillets alone while cooking, or make sure there's sufficient liquid (of any kind) and the heat is at an appropriate level to prevent carbonisation. I think I've described how I clean my skillets; I rarely need a brush to remove cooking residue.

Absolutely, well-seasoned pans, woks, etc, are good. In fact, the best. Mind you, with a good-quality non-stick coating it's not so important.

In the days before non-stick even expensive pans would build up unhealthy gunge and need to be cleaned. Balancing that with good seasoning was a bit of an art.

[ragman1]

Life itself will kill you in the end.

(If only I didn't hate feeling fat I'd be eating into the cardiac arrest insurance against cancer and dementia )

I only do it about once a week so I reckon that's okay.

By the way, what oil do you use?

[CliffR]

@Ragman1 - you're right: I was rude, and I hope you'll accept my apology.

As for the physics: all of the fluid simulation work I've done has been at a significantly larger scale where the effects of surface tension and viscosity are not significant compared with the other terms in the Navier-Stokes equation. Even at the scale of around 1mm thick layers of oil, I wouldn't discount the effects of temperature/pressure-induced gradients at the centre versus edges of oil in the pan.

What oil do folks use? Surely we're all using canola/rapeseed?

[ragman1]

@Ragman1 - you're right: I was rude, and I hope you'll accept my apology

Naturally :-)

As for the physics: all of the fluid simulation work I've done has been at a significantly larger scale where the effects of surface tension and viscosity are not significant compared with the other terms in the Navier-Stokes equation.

As far as I know, the NS equation isn't always reliable. It tends to rely on the information provided, or something like that.

Even at the scale of around 1mm thick layers of oil, I wouldn't discount the effects of temperature/pressure-induced gradients at the centre versus edges of oil in the pan.

Absolutely, that's what's causing the effect. But I think Fedorchenko's explanation is as good as any. I've observed the breaking of the film many a time.

What oil do folks use? Surely we're all using canola/rapeseed?

Peanut seems to be a favorite, then canola, sunflower, etc. I've used olive oil before. These days I use rapeseed but I don't think it matters a lot unless it adversely affects the flavor of the food.

[RJVB]

I'm a bit surprised here, I was still at the page where rapeseed oil was great for salads but not baking/frying because of a too low smoking point but that's no longer the case?!

I do prefer olive oil for taste, sunflower or rice bran oil when (deep) frying.

[ragman1]

I'm told this stuff's quite good.



I think rapeseed's good for seasoning. Either way, I've had no problem with it. Maybe if I was cooking steak I might use something more robust.

I haven't tried rice bran but apparently it's as good as peanut, nice earthy flavor. So I'll definitely give it a spin!

[RJVB]

I think rapeseed's good for seasoning

It'll work, but for seasoning you'd preferably want an oil with a lower smoking point, esp. one that dries in contact with air like flak/lin seed oil.

Rice bran oil has a subtle sweetish taste that works really well with many fried foods, even simple fried-up potatoes. It's supposed to have plenty of healthy stuff and I like the idea that it allows to do something useful with all that by-product from white rice production. Dunno if that's actually the case but it'd be nice esp. since rice culture apparently isn't as sustainable as one could think.

[wintermoon]

It'll work, but for seasoning you'd preferably want an oil with a lower smoking point, esp. one that dries in contact with air like flak/lin seed oil.

Rice bran oil has a subtle sweetish taste that works really well with many fried foods, even simple fried-up potatoes. It's supposed to have plenty of healthy stuff and I like the idea that it allows to do something useful with all that by-product from white rice production. Dunno if that's actually the case but it'd be nice esp. since rice culture apparently isn't as sustainable as one could think.

A lot of people use flax to season but it's not very durable and requires more frequent seasoning than other oils.

[Litterick]

What oil do folks use? Surely we're all using canola/rapeseed?

The only way is olive.

[ragman1]

The only way is olive.

There's a tune in that :-)