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Another vote how Jens Larsen presents material. His videos are well-crafted lessons. He has transcriptions that he presents and analyses. He avoids noodling: "You can *noodly* or *noodly* or even *noodly-noodly*" -- I don't find that as helpful and something that is thought out. This is a good example of his presentation.
(One more thing: the musical intro. If it's too long it tries the patience. Do that on the outro! Here the intro is 3 or 4 seconds!)
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08-15-2023 10:31 AM
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Isn't the youtube payout like a cent per 100 views? That's after you reach their monetization requirements too. So he's made a whopping $160 off that video... Like I said in my first comment, who is making good money off youtube and how much, exactly, are they making.
Originally Posted by jzucker
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their primary income will be via Patreon or other third party subscriptions or paywalled off-YouTube content (such as video courses). YouTube monetisation can be a viable income stream once you get over 100k (as I understand it) but it’s still not enough to live on. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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So, if I have this right, the people want jazz guitar videos that don’t contain too much playing, and no improvisation. Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
Got it! ;-)
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This is why I'm not in charge of anybody's YouTube content. I see a video, and I'm like "SHUT UP AND GET TO THE PLAYING!"
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the stats indicate you are in the minority. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Tbh I think a lot of people find music confusing and alienating. They’d rather talk or have things explained to them
in seriousness they need bite sized chunks. Part of the learning process for me is the realisation that I need hardly any content for a video. I always put too much.
Otoh you are in a very small percentile of people who can actually play jazz fluently. Your needs are different.
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It's a lesson, not a gig.
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Not jazz, but this is a well done video, in my opinion. You can fast forward to almost any random point in the whole thing and he's either playing or directly talking about what he's playing.
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Is it? How much did you pay for the lesson? Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
How much am I being paid again?
Ah, yeah. Hardly worth the annoying ads is it?
I am being a little playful and jokey, I actually think your analysis is spot on. It also closely accords with what I am getting from my analytics, if your aim is to make better performing instructional YouTube vids.
However, there’s another perspective to this.
Most working musicians get paid actual money, even a salary, to teach the guitar
Maybe if one puts out tightly written and edited material it picks up, you do better in the long run and generate a heathly passive income, but my experience has not shown this is a dead cert. And if you are successful you are still beholden to the whims of YouTube. Worth bearing in mind.
hence my personal issues with the platform which I am yet to work out. I never set out to be making tutorials, yet here I am, because that’s what people expect and nudge you towards.
OTOH I’m not that hungry to be a successful jazz guitar YouTuber (even if I had a formula to achieve that)
Even during my time on it it has become heavily professionalised, I would say that for each Jens there’s dozens of YouTubers who put in a lot of effort and talent (for not much financial return.)
It is far from clear to me this should be expected or encouraged. It also makes content increasingly bland and generic as creators increasingly gravitate to the same basic practice.Last edited by Christian Miller; 08-15-2023 at 12:28 PM.
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Yeah I also think it’s worth thinking about the resource we’re vying for. We tend to think of engagement as being an infinite resource because it’s abstract. It is abstract, but it’s very very finite. There are only so many hours in the day and only so many people with hours to spend. Take into account that we’re talking about a niche topic (jazz or jazz guitar), the number of eyeballs is probably pretty small and gets smaller as the content gets more advanced. So I feel like the move would be to zig when every one else zags. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Is it? How much did you pay for the lesson?
How much am I being paid again?
Ah, yeah. Hardly worth the annoying ads is it?
I am being a little playful and jokey, I actually think your analysis is spot on. It also closely accords with what I am getting from my analytics, if your aim is to make better performing instructional YouTube vids.
However, there’s another perspective to this.
Most working musicians get paid actual money, even a salary, to teach the guitar
Maybe if one puts out tightly written and edited material it picks up, you do better in the long run and generate a heathly passive income, but my experience has not shown this is a dead cert. And if you are successful you are still beholden to the whims of YouTube. Worth bearing in mind.
hence my personal issues with the platform which I am yet to work out. I never set out to be making tutorials, yet here I am, because that’s what people expect and nudge you towards. I haven’t really worked out what I am doing on it tbh.
Even during my time on it it has become heavily professionalised, I would say that for each Jens there’s dozens of YouTubers who put in a lot of effort and talent (for not much financial return.)
It is far from clear to me this should be expected or encouraged. It also makes content increasingly bland and generic as creators increasingly gravitate to the same basic practice.
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I feel that used to work better than now? I’m not sure though. I think it could work still if you have something fresh to offer and a good way of presenting it. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
Provided you aren’t focussed on becoming a big shot YouTuber, the best way to do it is to use a YouTube channel imo is to drive your practice in some way.
There’s something about the commitment of putting something out weekly in public that is really powerful, and could be used to drive your development. If you turn something you’ve learned from transcription into a video for instance, I think it’s a good way to consolidate your knowledge.
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I agree with Mr B. All you can do is keep it concise and have good content. I don't want to hear a bunch of talking or extraneous content like a long intro. Youtube videos seem to be getting more spazzy, with constant hand gesturing, captions, shot changes, and click bait thumbnails. I don't know if this improves engagement, but it's possible.
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Another channel I like is Adam Neely's. I think he started out more bass-focused, but now it's a box of chocolates. It's not a jazz instruction channel, but I think he's making some coin.
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Don't underestimate the number of videos somebody like me will watch rather than actually putting in the time to practice Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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It’s a great channel. Most of it is not really detailing music so much as things about music. Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
I would say ‘the How Not to Suck at Music’ (or whatever they are called now) actually have a lot of instruction value - I’m always interested to see what Adam picks up on when listening to submissions - often quite different to what I hear. I could do with more of that on YT in general. I think it’s all quite low effort content too.
otoh that said I’m mostly interested because I think Adam is a good musician not because he’s a Big Name on YT. So he has that outside credibility of being a working player in NY.
The video essays are in general very good, and well researched. Obviously they take a lot of work. I notice there’s been a bit of a drop off, I think he’s got busier with playing?
I think the more vloggy/slice of life vids are valuable to young people curious about the life of working musos.
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Say, how’s confirmation getting on? Originally Posted by CliffR
Don't underestimate the number of videos somebody like me will watch rather than actually putting in the time to practice
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Lol. I'm trying to record it right now. I simply can't play the head without a mistake, even at 110bpm (or even at 80bpm, for that matter). I have three partial successes down and later I'll pick the least worst to thrill you with tomorrow. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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I really like Adam Neely too, and Aimee Nolte. I think they're both spending more time promoting their stuff on another channel (SkillShare, I think it's called).
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Nebula? I think that was the idea to get away from YouTube. I signed up to it for a while but pretty much forgot to use it. Originally Posted by CliffR
I don t tend to watch much music YT anyway, but i daresay it’s a good shout for soporific science podcasts which is my main jam.
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This is the point I don't think OP is getting. YouTube videos are the commercial for the paid videos you're also putting out behind patreon or something. It's a lot of videos.... Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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I don't see it as an issue of wanting an easy fix. Originally Posted by Litterick
Jazz guitar is hard (guitar in general is goofy), and it's also not all that popular of a jazz idiom compared to things like sax and piano. So it's already a pretty narrow marketplace, even at the beginner level. Add in the fact that Jack's material is aimed at a the relatively small segment of more advanced jazz guitar players, and you've got a tough situation. Maybe a paid subscription service more along the lines of what Barry Greene offers might be an option, but that's just a wild guess. I do think Barry's site is incredible.
I've spent a fair bit of time on Jen's site working with his course. I'm not wild about it, but it's pretty good and has an organized flow of material that makes sense, and sets you up with a bias towards getting to repertoire without years of technical work.
Mini-rant - the video example that Jack initially put up of the guy spouting on about how to do videos the "right way" - imo, he's a perfect example of a Youtube music dolt.
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I normally avoid video lessons with a passion. I want it straight to the point and no outside chatting and even humor is not good. If they are short and to the point about only one or a few related concepts fine, but otherwise get me out. I personally would not pay for any instructional video really and that is because I have played a long time. I am hack for sure but I also know I simply need to play and learn tunes inside and out.
Now as to the revenue end of the this I going to rant maybe but it comes from a business perspective. There is no real money in it except for a few folks who are dedicated. I don't gig anymore, and gigs never paid what repairing a guitar would so that seems better. No money in instruction without spending a lot of energy and at my age of 62 I don't have the same energy level as I did 30 years ago.
Finally, just for comparison. I also repair and tune bikes. This month I managed to work on 3 separate bikes and the total for the work ( profit) would far exceed any gig or teaching experience. My point is to find something that is more profitable, and you reasonably like. I love to play the guitar but really once you are start teaching and gigging it can be serious work. On the other hand, I set my own hours repairing guitars and bikes.
Jack do what you think is best but might explore simply playing and leave it at that.
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My favorite kind of tutorial:
Sometimes I have to show the students something that I cannot do myself very well.
Those times, the banter is so painfully annoying.
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Personally I really loved and still love Jim Stinnett's videos. Originally Posted by jzucker
He was simple and accurate, he wasn't a product.
He played and taught real.
A lot of people want to be someone else on the net but never themselves.
Thanks Jim !
I don't know if there are a lot of people like him on the net.
If Joe Pass were still alive I think he would make the same kind of videos.
That's just me but everyone does the same thing now, it's kind of annoying and predictable.
Maybe simplicity is the way to go.
Unfortunately I don't think that people enjoy these simplicity and accuracy.
I also appreciate piano lessons but about the guitar it's different because most of the time they drown themselves in their own explanations even the best ones.
Jimmy Bruno makes funny and useful videos but it's Jimmy Bruno.
I think that talking about what you write and who you are is the best gift you could offer.
That would make a difference, Jim Stinnett did it very well.
Sure he wasn't a star but he lived and still lives into a lot of hearts.
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Hello Christian, I enjoy your videos, but you need to get the sound levels under control. In some of the vids, your voice is almost inaudible while the guitar gets deafening. Keep up the good work. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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