The State of Music

[Stevebol]

I think your comparison here perfectly illustrates my point. Olivia’s song is not a “hit” to my ear. No doubt it’s a video production aimed at today’s record buyers. It’s typical of songs by today’s recording artists.

Silk Sonic sings a well written song, produced by Bootsy Collins aka the bassist of James Browns second band, which features a nod to early 70’s soul. If you analyze the song itself it’s rather sophisticated with elements of jazz in its writing. In short the two songs have nothing in common.

You're right. Not really. Deja vu is clearly 80's with the U2 sample and mentioning Uptown Girl. LTDO is 70's. The only thing they have in common is being retro.

[Lobomov]

If music isn't important why does it sell so well?

This made me smile cause it makes no sense in regards with the rest of this thread. But I actually agree .. if something sells then it's important!



And currently what sells the most and thus is most important is this:

[2bornot2bop]

Cardi B, Billy Eilish and Olivia Rodrigo are all young. Women are leading the way now. Bruno Mars is 35 years old. I liked 'Locked Out of Heaven'. Nothing else really grabs me but he's a good entertainer.

There are way too many producers. These young women don't need very many. They can shop their stuff around. They'll call you if they need you.
I've had enough of DAWs. They can call someone else. I know the tricks but I just goof around in DAWs. Other people are way better at producing than me.

I can see younger people channeling the 80's. We were an aimless generation. The 70's? Please. We cut our teeth on 60's and 70's music. How can you compare the Stylistics to Bruno Mars?

I think like a film major when I see a music video. Deju vu is an interesting story. It's obviously set in California. I can't even afford a house in Las Vegas much less California.
Nice pad, nice car. Cruising down the road looking like Grace Kelley.
That's great.
I see the ocean. That's what it's all about.

I never compared the Stylistics to BM. But the 70’s had a diverse amount of musicians, each which were identifiable by their own unique voice. What BM performed wasn’t comparable to specific artists but instead the performance sounds like it could have been from the temptations or many other groups.

Uptown funk ruled the world in 2015. But it didn’t move you? So be it.

[2bornot2bop]

You're right. Not really. Deja vu is clearly 80's with the U2 sample and mentioning Uptown Girl. LTDO is 70's. The only thing they have in common is being retro.

I respectfully disagree. The song is modern to me. It sounds like all the other songs I’ve heard from this generation. It’s more in line with Taylor Swift, who Olivia claims to be an admirer of.

But again, a hit compared to music of the 70’s or even 80’s? Absolutely not sir. But I agree, Olivia is doing her own thing. And by her video performance she’s doing a good job. But that’s all marketing. And that’s the problem with today’s music, for it’s all hype with no substance. Again, all my opinion.

[Stevebol]

I never compared the Stylistics to BM. But the 70’s had a diverse amount of musicians, each which were identifiable by their own unique voice. What BM performed wasn’t comparable to specific artists but instead the performance sounds like it could have been from the temptations or many other groups.

Uptown funk ruled the world in 2015. But it didn’t move you? So be it.

If they could dance and play I might have been moved. One steps band I was in was as good at steps as any of the major acts in the mid-80's. We got a lot of practice.
I think they're channeling Rick James more than the Minneapolis sound. Those horn stabs.

It's an OK song.

'Bitch say my name, you know who I am..'
Best part of the song.

Rick James is infamous for his line- I'm Rick James, bitch.
He didn't do that in his music.

Uptown Funk is just retro 80's. At least Bruno has an actual band. Excellent bass player. That sure helps.

[Littlemark]

It's a good thing I spent all that time answering 2bops question. I even proof read it first. Which is sadly rare for me to do.

[citizenk74]

This made me smile cause it makes no sense in regards with the rest of this thread. But I actually agree .. if something sells then it's important!



And currently what sells the most and thus is most important is this:

Just fell down a rabbit hole with this. This is a quintisential example of a corporate production ethos in which every sound, move, and affect is calculated to multiple decimal places, with the precise location of every visible atom algorithmically calculated for maximum commercial effect. The dancers are highly skilled and trained by armies of choreographers, who are in turn coached by teams of social psychologists focused on wringing every possible microgram of subliminal sales potential from the dancers themselves, to the subtleties of the cinematic storytelling. The story being - "You must have this. All of this. All of the time. Everywhere you are. Posters. Streams. Branded merchandise in every conceivable form. Imagery, not only of the group BTS, but of each and every member, color coded with cotton candy colored hair and matching/contrasting contact lenses; most especially your most favoritest. It is marketing to the nth degree, always and completely.

And as individual members age/burn out, a replacement can readily be found, trained, and integrated. This money machine will be raking in the dough from their tweener fans until their cohort dies of old age. Mark it.

You may have noted I said nothing of singers.* Live performances may require the strictly cosmetic use of face mics, but it is a given that the dancers will be lip-synching.
They may be young and strong, but no human can do both for a one hour show. Milli Vanilli had it right.

* I've no doubt the lads can sing conventionally, perhaps even very well; nevertheless it is their good looks and programability that makes them useful** to the corporation.

** If only temporarily, like racing Greyhounds.

[gcb]

If they could dance and play I might have been moved. One steps band I was in was as good at steps as any of the major acts in the mid-80's. We got a lot of practice.
I think they're channeling Rick James more than the Minneapolis sound. Those horn stabs.

It's an OK song.

'Bitch say my name, you know who I am..'
Best part of the song.

Rick James is infamous for his line- I'm Rick James, bitch.
He didn't do that in his music.

Uptown Funk is just retro 80's. At least Bruno has an actual band. Excellent bass player. That sure helps.

I like J. Artis too.

[Stevebol]

Just fell down a rabbit hole with this. This is a quintisential example of a corporate production ethos in which every sound, move, and affect is calculated to multiple decimal places, with the precise location of every visible atom algorithmically calculated for maximum commercial effect. The dancers are highly skilled and trained by armies of choreographers, who are in turn coached by teams of social psychologists focused on wringing every possible microgram of subliminal sales potential from the dancers themselves, to the subtleties of the cinematic storytelling. The story being - "You must have this. All of this. All of the time. Everywhere you are. Posters. Streams. Branded merchandise in every conceivable form. Imagery, not only of the group BTS, but of each and every member, color coded with cotton candy colored hair and matching/contrasting contact lenses; most especially your most favoritest. It is marketing to the nth degree, always and completely.

And as individual members age/burn out, a replacement can readily be found, trained, and integrated. This money machine will be raking in the dough from their tweener fans until their cohort dies of old age. Mark it.

You may have noted I said nothing of singers.* Live performances may require the strictly cosmetic use of face mics, but it is a given that the dancers will be lip-synching.
They may be young and strong, but no human can do both for a one hour show. Milli Vanilli had it right.

* I've no doubt the lads can sing conventionally, perhaps even very well; nevertheless it is their good looks and programability that makes them useful** to the corporation.

** If only temporarily, like racing Greyhounds.

It's a good system. Take Americans that write bad R&B and ship them off to South Korea;

BTS, Red Velvet, Blackpink: Meet the American producers and songwriters behind your favorite K-pop stars - CNN

It's just bubble gum music.

[2bornot2bop]

If they could dance and play I might have been moved. One steps band I was in was as good at steps as any of the major acts in the mid-80's. We got a lot of practice.
I think they're channeling Rick James more than the Minneapolis sound. Those horn stabs.

It's an OK song.

'Bitch say my name, you know who I am..'
Best part of the song.

Rick James is infamous for his line- I'm Rick James, bitch.
He didn't do that in his music.

Uptown Funk is just retro 80's. At least Bruno has an actual band. Excellent bass player. That sure helps.

The fact is they do play. But the theme of this song included a required dance routine. It would be impossible to do these dance moves with any instrument. I give them credit for sounding very close to the original recording during their Saturday Night Live performance. The song is 11 times platinum, with the 7th most YouTube views all time, with some 4 Billion views. Not to mention the many 100’s of the worldwide UF dance videos it launched. It classifies as a mega hit. 5 years after its release Orchestras are doing the song during a covid lockdown.

[gcb]

Legend Andrew Gouche still around. Music is OK.

[Stevebol]

The fact is they do play. But the theme of this song included a required dance routine. It would be impossible to do these dance moves with any instrument. I give them credit for sounding very close to the original recording during their Saturday Night Live performance. The song is 11 times platinum, with the 7th most YouTube views all time, with some 4 Billion views. Not to mention the many 100’s of the worldwide UF dance videos it launched. It classifies as a mega hit. 5 years after its release Orchestras are doing the song during a covid lockdown.

Uptown Funk doesn't do a thing for me but I like this;

It's high energy. Not retro.

[gcb]

Kirk Franklin (Matthew Ramsey -the bassist, not the country singer- on bass).

[skypeace]

If you think being a musician is harder now, be thankful you aren't a photographer lol.

[Littlemark]

If you think being a musician is harder now, be thankful you aren't a photographer lol.

Typo?

[Stevebol]

I never compared the Stylistics to BM. But the 70’s had a diverse amount of musicians, each which were identifiable by their own unique voice. What BM performed wasn’t comparable to specific artists but instead the performance sounds like it could have been from the temptations or many other groups.

Uptown funk ruled the world in 2015. But it didn’t move you? So be it.

Bruno Mars has a band and Gen Z women don't need many producers.
Neither one is what's wrong with the music business.

There's only one casino in all of Las Vegas with a music policy because frat boys call the shots.

[Stevebol]

He has a band, which sets him apart from most of his peers.

Yes. That's a big deal. I was just reading about him. Seems like a cool dude.

[Lobomov]

If you think being a musician is harder now, be thankful you aren't a photographer lol.

Oh My God


I can vividly imagine similar threads in photo forums .. Art has been watered down pretending that amateurs with iphones taking pictures for free can replace a professional.

I worked on my craft over a life time, but here we are .. disgusting

[Stevebol]

that’s hilarious. Dino’s don’t produce hits. And is your girl a musician or simply a singer?

They're both good for popular music but I'm doing way too much California dreaming these days. I was going to go there with a friend a week ago but he got Covid. He's doing well.

[Marinero]

Less complex does not mean inferior.

I think it is safe to say that Baroque era music is more complex than both Renaissance and Classical era music. Doesn't make it better.

Similarly bebop is more complex than cool Jazz and modal Jazz.

So, L,
Are you saying that the "Millennial Whoop" and its devotees is a good comparison to period differences in Classical and Jazz? IMO, the musical doggerel known as "MW" is decidedly inferior in form and performance. The only comparison between a diamond and a sand pebble is that they both came from the ground. Any other comparison is an exercise in absurdity.
Play live . . . Marinero

[citizenk74]

If you think being a musician is harder now, be thankful you aren't a photographer lol.

[Littlemark]

So, L,
Are you saying that the "Millennial Whoop" and its devotees is a good comparison to period differences in Classical and Jazz? IMO, the musical doggerel known as "MW" is decidedly inferior in form and performance. The only comparison between a diamond and a sand pebble is that they both came from the ground. Any other comparison is an exercise in absurdity.
Play live . . . Marinero

I had never heard the term "millennial whoop" before this thread. From what I gather it is the common usage of an internal in recent pop music.
With that understanding I would liken it to the frequent use of the Neapolitan chord in operas around 1700. Very popular and chique in the Neapolitan school. But fell out of favour later.

In Jazz I would liken it to the frequent use of "the lick" in solos, or the use of the lowered 3rd in Blues solos.

[2bornot2bop]

Yes. That's a big deal. I was just reading about him. Seems like a cool dude.

I believe it does matter that Bruno genuinely plays 4-5 instruments. And yes, Bruno seems like a really nice guy.

[2bornot2bop]

Uptown Funk doesn't do a thing for me

No one likes every recording partly because of biases. But UF did have an iconic recording that the entire world did enjoy. You must acknowledge that.

[Stevebol]

I believe it does matter that Bruno genuinely plays 4-5 instruments. And yes, Bruno seems like a really nice guy.

It's actually huge. He seems like a confident guy. He likes looking out for his family, band,etc...
He is what he appears to be.

I'm in a fog these days with all these Californians moving to Las Vegas. Most of them couldn't afford it. That's why I left.
We're California dreaming. It's better not to talk about it.
Gravel and slot machines. We do our best.