When did "two-five" become a thing?

[christianm77]

I don't think they would refer to this

Fm7 Bb7 Cmaj7

as a ii-V, but perhaps I'm wrong? Classical musicians get confused when you talk about dominant sevenths that aren't functioning as such, so ...

[ah.clem]

I don't think they would refer to this

Fm7 Bb7 Cmaj7

as a ii-V, but perhaps I'm wrong? Classical musicians get confused when you talk about dominant sevenths that aren't functioning as such, so ...

Like I said, it was 40+ years ago, and I don't really recall what it would be referred to in classical terms, or if it was referred to at all. That's what is called a "backdoor cadence", correct? I've only heard it discussed in jazz writing/arranging. I'm trying to recall any use in classical music, but I'm having trouble recalling all the various cadence names and functions, let alone any harmonic analysis I had to do. I'd be curious to hear from a theorist about this, but I'm not interested enough to spend much time researching it. I was just recalling that a ii V was described as such as early as the 1750s or so, not suggesting that I was a theory expert. I was just happy to get through the classes!

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Like I said, it was 40+ years ago, and I don't really recall what it would be referred to in classical terms, or if it was referred to at all. That's what is called a "backdoor cadence", correct? I've only heard it discussed in jazz writing/arranging. I'm trying to recall any use in classical music, but I'm having trouble recalling all the various cadence names and functions, let alone any harmonic analysis I had to do. I'd be curious to hear from a theorist about this, but I'm not interested enough to spend much time researching it. I was just recalling that a ii V was described as such as early as the 1750s or so, not suggesting that I was a theory expert. I was just happy to get through the classes!

I think they'd call Bb7 CMaj7 a minor plagal cadence, which is usually iv I, but in C, the key notes of the iv chord are F and Ab, so other chords with those notes function as the minor subdominant chord: Bb7, AbMaj7 or DbMaj7 instead of Fm.

[ah.clem]

I think they'd call Bb7 CMaj7 a minor plagal cadence, which is usually iv I, but in C, the key notes of the iv chord are F and Ab, so other chords with those notes function as the minor subdominant chord: Bb7, AbMaj7 or DbMaj7 instead of Fm.

Thanks, BigDaddy. You are reminding me why I enjoyed my performance classes more than theory or history!

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Thanks, BigDaddy. You are reminding me why I enjoyed my performance classes more than theory or history!