Vibing?

**kofblz** · 02-24-2016, 09:33 AM

Is this a real term? I know musical snobbery exists in all genres and passive aggressive actions is not unique, but do people really call this "vibing"? Seems like an odd word choice.

Why "Vibing" is bad for jazz

**Nate Miller** · 02-24-2016, 09:59 AM

people talked about the "vibes" when I was a young guy. If you're under 40, maybe that's why it sounds funny. But we used to talk about the "good vibes" and "bad vibes" at sessions and gigs

doing that stuff on their list of thing you shouldn't do we used to call "vibing someone out"

you can learn more about this and other slang expressions from my youth in the ancient language section of the Smithsonian. I believe they even have a stuffed Hep Cat there so that future generations can see what one actually looked like

**drbhrb** · 02-24-2016, 10:29 AM

It's a common term on the east coast

**whiskey02** · 02-24-2016, 12:33 PM

I got a bad vibe from that bullshit page the link took me to. Not going back there; bad vibe.

**Nate Miller** · 02-24-2016, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by whiskey02

I got a bad vibe from that bullshit page the link took me to. Not going back there; bad vibe.

yea, that article was kinda like sensitivity training for jazz mongers

I mean, I've been on the bandstand when gunfire broke out in the club and I kept playing

I think I can manage some jerky passive aggressive piano player

**Doctor Jeff** · 02-26-2016, 12:16 PM

What's wrong with a little vibing?

Vibing?-lionel-hampton-07-jpg

**pingu** · 02-26-2016, 01:10 PM

one of my first attempts at a jam sess ,pretty green, before the downbeat i found the house
drummer had turned every knob on the house guitar amp down to zero ....

he was kinda laughing about it .... funny huh ?
I hadn't played a note yet ...
i said "whats going on ?" he said " i don't like
guitar" or guitarists or something like that

I was upset and he got that and said "It was a joke" etc "come back" etc ...

but I just left the bandstand ....
bad vibes man
I not into the macho competitive thing

**Hep To The Jive** · 02-26-2016, 01:41 PM

My jazz guitar teacher in college would give me bad vibes almost every lesson, and not just me. In a funny way though, but still humiliating. He was a genius, so you had to eat shit, or... I knew some who couldn't take it- they don't do music for a living.

Here in NYC it continues, everything is competitive, but it doesn't bother me, I had a tough school. LOL. It's annoying, though, that's true.

Here's how it's done:

**pingu** · 02-26-2016, 02:12 PM

Here in NYC it continues, everything is competitive,

I don't think I'd like NYC !
How can anyone get to first base in jazz there .....
I mean there's so much work to do just to get ready to play with others anyway

**eddy b.** · 02-26-2016, 02:21 PM

Yes people use the term vibing. To express the concept of having little to no tolerance for human imperfection. Though some with egos more developed than their chops, deserve a good vibing as do those who observe no etiquette with regards to sitting in. Safe to say I've been vibed and have vibed and have no problem with it.

**Hep To The Jive** · 02-26-2016, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by pingu

I don't think I'd like NYC !
How can anyone get to first base in jazz there .....
I mean there's so much work to do just to get ready to play with others anyway

It's not that bad, there are some jams and groups for intermediate or non pros, you can always find a niche. Or pay for jazz workshop ensemble classes, where you should be totally safe. But still it's best to adopt good ol 'sticks and stones can break my bones, words (or in our case- bad vibes) don't hurt me'...

**Nate Miller** · 02-26-2016, 02:53 PM

Sonny Stitt was notorious for purposefully screwing with people. There's all sorts of stories. He'd cut players off, play stuff to screw guys up, ...all to demonstrate that he was Sonny Stitt and you were dog food.

I used to play with a bass player up in Anchorage who could really dish it out, too.

but you know what? for as big a jerk as he could be, he was also the guy that took me around pawn shops on a Saturday afternoon to find a cheap guitar case so I wouldn't have to keep lugging around my ATA flight case everywhere

so sometimes they are just screwing around with you. Some guys are mean spirited about it, but some guys just like to give you 'the business". Those guys, if they didn't like you, they wouldn't bother

**Nate Miller** · 02-26-2016, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive

But still it's best to adopt good ol 'sticks and stones can break my bones, words (or in our case- bad vibes) don't hurt me'...

in my old neighborhood, the kids would actually beat you with sticks and stones, so it wasn't just a saying

anytime you don't get your head kicked in you had nothing to worry about

**christianm77** · 02-26-2016, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Nate Miller

Sonny Stitt was notorious for purposefully screwing with people. There's all sorts of stories. He'd cut players off, play stuff to screw guys up, ...all to demonstrate that he was Sonny Stitt and you were dog food.

I used to play with a bass player up in Anchorage who could really dish it out, too.

but you know what? for as big a jerk as he could be, he was also the guy that took me around pawn shops on a Saturday afternoon to find a cheap guitar case so I wouldn't have to keep lugging around my ATA flight case everywhere

so sometimes they are just screwing around with you. Some guys are mean spirited about it, but some guys just like to give you 'the business". Those guys, if they didn't like you, they wouldn't bother

You mean, if they're musically hazing you it mean they think you can take it. I suppose it's like musical banter.

Unleash the bantersaurus rex. Visit the archbishop of banterbury. Proper banter, mate.

**Nate Miller** · 02-26-2016, 04:06 PM

yea, but like I said, there are guys who are mean spirited about it too. They're just doing because they can, usually.

I remember one night when I was playing with Albie, and old B3 player, there was a guy he knew from the old days sitting in, and this fella just hated young guys. I mean all night this guy was one snarky remark after another. Albie told me don't listen to him, and then he kept calling tunes he knew I played good on to help me out. I tell you, after 30 years, I still remember that mother ****er. I was real glad I had Albie there looking out for me.

one of the few times I really had to put up with somebody just plain being mean all the way till 3am

**pingu** · 02-26-2016, 04:54 PM

i find that whole attitude weird tho
i mean how are you gonna play with people
like that , and make something beautiful/meaningful when you start out in competition with them , rather than colaboration

surely it's all BS and a waste of everyone's time .... including the audience

**Nate Miller** · 02-26-2016, 05:08 PM

yea, but its just like any job. I don't have to like you to work with you. Sure, its great when everybody is best buddies, but what workplace have you ever seen that's like that?

and sometimes those guys who are real bastards can really play. They might even be the guy who's paying you, too

don't get me wrong, I'm with you. but its not a perfect world we live in, and if you play enough, you'll run into it sooner or later

best thing is to just let it go. Remember, you control your own emotions. nothing I say or do can "make" you feel bad, you have to chose to react that way

**Hep To The Jive** · 02-26-2016, 05:37 PM

I remember the story I red somewhere told by a trombone player who showed up at one of those original bebop jam session, hosted by Charlie Parker. He comes to Bird, introduces himself and says 'hey man, I'm new, and Id like to sit in, but I would rather do something medium tempo, not too fast, I'm not ready for fast tempos, is it ok?' And Bird goes 'absolutely, you got it, don't worry about it man, I got ya!', smiles, pats the guy on a shoulder... The trombone player happily steps on the stage, and Bird counts off Cherokee at fastest tempo anyone ever heard... In hindsight, the guy said he was grateful for the experience.

**christianm77** · 02-26-2016, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Nate Miller

best thing is to just let it go. Remember, you control your own emotions. nothing I say or do can "make" you feel bad, you have to chose to react that way

You have to keep you emotions in check to play. Jazz is all about keeping your cool. Maybe that's the wider lesson.

**neatomic** · 02-26-2016, 06:42 PM

one of les pauls fave "bits" when he was holding weekly court at fat tuesdays, and later iridium in nyc, was to call a celebrated guitarist up from the audience..say jeff beck..hand him a completely out of tune guitar, and then start the tune before the guy could even realize...

les paul humor

cheers

**Nate Miller** · 02-26-2016, 10:31 PM

Hey Hep, I've had that happen to me. Remember that bass player I was talking about? Well, I had played with him that summer and then at Christmas, I'm up visiting my folks and I drive down to Anchorage to see all the fellas. I stop by his gig, and they're gonna let me sit in. His regular guitar player was an awesome player, and he was also a really cool guy and he offered to let me use his axe and everything. I get up on the stand, and since I've back from another semester at North Texas, he says rather innocently, "...so how's that tempo barrier?"

I say "anything this side of 300, I should be ok"

this is about when I notice the drummer is grinning...

you know the rest. Cherokee at the speed of light. I folded like a cheap lawn chair

it really cracked me up, too. I mean, I saw that I'd been had. ****ing guys

**jordanklemons** · 02-27-2016, 01:57 AM

I think it was way more common in early generations. I've heard that when a new guy joined Ellington's orchestra, nobody in the group would talk to them for like the first year. It was part of the learning process back then. They didn't have jazz academies in every city, or youtube, or people on forums giving away advice and experience. You had to earn it, and prove you were there for real... right or wrong.

Today, that's quite different. Most of us learned at school or in the safety of an online video.

I personally don't 'enjoy' being vibed by older better players... but I definitely have been... and I'll tell you this... NOTHING will get you onto your game faster than being called out like that in front of a bunch of people. It's terrible and unpleasant, but there's a reason they did it. You either needed to learn, quickly, or you needed to be replaced.

It's a whole different culture now. But still, that machismo culture has a place in the jazz community. I personally don't enjoy it... but it's there whether we like it or not. You either avoid it and only play with guys that don't vibes, or you put up with it until they accept you and drop the act.

**christianm77** · 02-27-2016, 07:10 AM

Macho posturing in jazz is quite funny/tragic.

There is a difference between legitimate alpha male type energy and posturing however. If that doesn't sound too new agey/self helpy.

I could write a long article about this, its quite interesting. Some bands I work with are wine drinkers and cultured types , very earnest intellectual vibes, and others are more of a beery sports crowd with lots of ripping the piss out of each other and stupid behaviour. I enjoy the different vibes...

And a spot of brotherly rivalry on the band stand can make for a great energy...

But it's not the only energy. I think women musicians have an interesting take on this. It was a woman who said to me that she liked the testosterone of jazz and that was an attractive quality of the music for her. On the other hand, I play with a lot of female musicians I'm always interested to know what they like and dislike about the culture of the music. It is quite a straight male kind of vibe when you compare it to classical music.

I have to say this forum is a total sausage party, which is a shame, although not surprising. When was the last time a woman posted here?

I thinking vibing - the competitiveness - is a negative male energy TBH. It's based on insecurity and trying to get one up on others you feel threatened by. It's always amazing to discover that people who are really amazing can sometimes be incredibly insecure about themselves and their playing, and that this comes out in different ways. A lot of guys hate to show any vulnerability at all so they express it as hostility.

**pingu** · 02-27-2016, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

You have to keep you emotions in check to play. Jazz is all about keeping your cool. Maybe that's the wider lesson.

I so dissagree with that ....
where did you get that idea ?

**pingu** · 02-27-2016, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Macho posturing in jazz is quite funny/tragic

I thinking vibing - the competitiveness - is a negative male energy TBH. It's based on insecurity and trying to get one up on others you feel threatened by. It's always amazing to discover that people who are really amazing can sometimes be incredibly insecure about themselves and their playing, and that this comes out in different ways. A lot of guys hate to show any vulnerability at all so they express it as hostility.

we're all insecure , even bird was , its the human condition