Why Isn't Jazz Popular?

[DawgBone]

When classical b-level stuff is played, unless i have the mood, i feel annoyed.
When Jazz's b-level. Omg. Hell. There is that. But that "that" doesn't matter whatsoever. Or taste.

I guess this is not classical vs. jazz. but it so is all the time. Or other vs.'s.

So many other genres have died and/or continuing their dying process.
But once you visit my thread that tries to bitch about the whole thing that goes on out there and now here, you'll get it!

My point is: when you are able to play jazz in a way that is at least somewhat close to what Corea, Patitucci and Colaiuta did in Tokyo Blue Note, at that point, jazz is revived once again!
Attitude, please! Give me that! Us! The world!

Instead whining, go and play!

edit: Us - meaning me and you. not the US.

I don't think you are talking about B level music, I think you are talking about C and D level. B level bands are still of reasonably high quality IMO they just aren't pro touring grade, or have a mix of pro grade players with some B level locals. One lesser player can send even a high quality band downward in terms of overall quality pretty easily.

[Stevebol]

I gotta avoid politics somehow.

That is a challenge especially now.

[JazzPadd]

I probably already replied to this question, but I think location is a factor, and also what is meant by popular. When I moved to Japan for work some time ago, I found that jazz was popular among the amateur musicians. By amateur, I mean Andy Merrifield’s “joy of doing what you love.” In my area alone, there are five venues in a reasonable drive holding regular jazz jams with a community vibe and a wide range of participants.

Some are former musicians like me, playing for fun and/or social activity, others seniors taking up a retirement hobby, others Gen Z who are curious. Last week at one venue there was a core of regulars joined by 8-10 college students who sang tunes like “I got you under my skin,” “Fly me to the moon,” and “The Girl from Ipanema,” or played the piano on “Autumn Leaves,” and others.

That was at a multi-genre venue (blues, bossa, funk, jazz), that also hosts open mics. Another venue focuses on hard bop, still another on jazz fusion. When I go to these and others there are always people having fun playing jazz together. These are “pay to play” jams, usually costing the equivalent of around 10USD at small venues that are providing instruments, amps, PA and such. It seems to be part of the “live house” tradition here in Japan.

Does this constitute popular? In terms of genres like J-Pop or the newly revitalized “City Pop,” I’m guessing not. But jazz seems to be popular enough to maintain an ongoing and self-sustaining regional ecosystem that provides opportunities to play jazz on a regular basis with one another.

[Stevebol]

I probably already replied to this question, but I think location is a factor, and also what is meant by popular. When I moved to Japan for work some time ago, I found that jazz was popular among the amateur musicians. By amateur, I mean Andy Merrifield’s “joy of doing what you love.” In my area alone, there are five venues in a reasonable drive holding regular jazz jams with a community vibe and a wide range of participants.

Some are former musicians like me, playing for fun and/or social activity, others seniors taking up a retirement hobby, others Gen Z who are curious. Last week at one venue there was a core of regulars joined by 8-10 college students who sang tunes like “I got you under my skin,” “Fly me to the moon,” and “The Girl from Ipanema,” or played the piano on “Autumn Leaves,” and others.

That was at a multi-genre venue (blues, bossa, funk, jazz), that also hosts open mics. Another venue focuses on hard bop, still another on jazz fusion. When I go to these and others there are always people having fun playing jazz together. These are “pay to play” jams, usually costing the equivalent of around 10USD at small venues that are providing instruments, amps, PA and such. It seems to be part of the “live house” tradition here in Japan.

Does this constitute popular? In terms of genres like J-Pop or the newly revitalized “City Pop,” I’m guessing not. But jazz seems to be popular enough to maintain an ongoing and self-sustaining regional ecosystem that provides opportunities to play jazz on a regular basis with one another.

There's very little written about the history of jazz in Japan. One book is Blue Nippon. After decades of deliberation Japan found it's footing regarding jazz in the mid 90's- after the crash of the early 90's.
Jazz is very 'popular' in Japan compared to the US. From what I've read, night clubs in Japan were throwing $3,000 a night at any foreign act with a CD in the 1990's.
I worked there in 1985-86' with an American steps band. It was a horrible experience because of a mafia war in Osaka at the time. I'll spare you too many details. I'm not happy about losing full-time gigs in 4 major cities in the far east.
I want to disconnect instead of asking questions about what happened.
I think Japan is pretty great. It's so bizarre and civilized at the same time. Musicians don't have to be court jesters like in the west. Japan has a school of jazz but a lot of musicians there go to Berkley to get their papers.
I went to Berkley and you didn't. Nah nah nah nah nah...
You're not a real jazz musician unless you're educated in a place where people despise it.

[Aiq]

Mr. Martino played often in Japan. Of course his wife is Japanese.

[Mick-7]

You're not a real jazz musician unless you're educated in a place where people despise it.

That's a great line, Steve, I may want to alter it though (it could use a b5), maybe to "in a place where people won't pay you to play it" - I don't think most people despise jazz, they'd just rather listen to something else.

[TF]

I don't think it's music style as much as it is entertainment value.

When jazz entertains, it is popular. If not, then not.

[Aiq]

My brother is an academic who was just looking up new books being published, and he found this:
Hating Jazz: A History of Its Disparagement, Mockery, and Other Forms of Abuse, Berish

FYI: it’s on Kindle.

[kris]

Because there are times like that.

[macuaig]

For a general audience, listening to jazz is like listening to poetry. You’re not always in the mood to deep dive into their head, it’s better to already have a connection with them, and styles are both an invitation and barrier.

My go-tos are Metheny, Martin Taylor, in that direction. I’m drawn to shapes forming before me. For very contemplative stream of consciousness, I’m happy to have stumbled on Mark Kleinhaut. I struggle with much of Miles Davis, as I would a very heavy poet, though I can soak in at times.

But listening to poetry is, like jazz, a specialist format. You don’t really want it to become mainstream, which would definitely change it. There’s nothing wrong with special interests, it’s absolutely wonderful the variations are available. Smaller audiences are a characteristic to be noticed, not a disadvantage to be “solved”.