Why Isn't Jazz Popular?

[Greywolf]

my 2 cents , Jazz is a bit complex for today's 15 second attention spans.

As an artist and luthier ,while I grew up listening to it, and have always loved it I find Trad Jazz players , like Classical which is my background tend to be a bit luddite in their acceptance of new, especially in instruments. Understandable as tradition is a paradigm.

It doesn't diminish my love for the music , only the narrow minded that don't accept progress in the craft.

[sgcim]

My brother is an academic who was just looking up new books being published, and he found this:
Hating Jazz: A History of Its Disparagement, Mockery, and Other Forms of Abuse, Berish

[Litterick]

My brother is an academic who was just looking up new books being published, and he found this:
Hating Jazz: A History of Its Disparagement, Mockery, and Other Forms of Abuse, Berish

'Both enlightening and original, Hating Jazz shows that our response to music can be a social act, unique to our historical moment and cultural context—we react to music in certain ways because of who we are, where we are, and when we are.'


Yes!

[Christian Miller]

My brother is an academic who was just looking up new books being published, and he found this:
Hating Jazz: A History of Its Disparagement, Mockery, and Other Forms of Abuse, Berish

Amazing!


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[Aiq]

The Strip, this morning 10:00 EST on TCM’s Noir Alley features many classic jazz artists.

After watching: pretty much planet cornball but nice to see Armstrong, Teagarden, and Hines.

The host said Mickey Rooney was sidelineing to Cozy Cole’s drumming.

[Aiq]

My brother is an academic who was just looking up new books being published, and he found this:
Hating Jazz: A History of Its Disparagement, Mockery, and Other Forms of Abuse, Berish

I’m about 10 books behind at the moment but this looks great - bookmarked.

[Hep To The Jive]

My brother is an academic who was just looking up new books being published, and he found this:
Hating Jazz: A History of Its Disparagement, Mockery, and Other Forms of Abuse, Berish

God help us, I already see where this is going lol. Don't joke about jazz folks, or you'll be labeled you know what.

[ragman1]

Why Isn't Jazz Popular?

That's like saying why isn't folk music popular. It is, among folk fans. Similarly with jazz. It's a niche genre. That's all there is to it.

[kris]

Jazz is music that is difficult to play and difficult to listen to.
The average listener goes and does not intend to understand this... or maybe he doesn"t want to.
Often the word jazz turns people off.

[brent.h]

Jazz, for better or worse, has made the soloist's improvisation the star. The real star should be the song.

[kris]

Jazz, for better or worse, has made the soloist's improvisation the star. The real star should be the song.

I think improvisation is a priority for a jazz musician.
The soloist receives applause for a good solo in a well-known song.

[Litterick]

Jazz, for better or worse, has made the soloist's improvisation the star. The real star should be the song.

The song is usually over ninety years old, the surviving remnant of a stage musical that nobody remembers. Jazz musicians are not encouraged to write new songs.

[Christian Miller]

Counterpoint

“The more I learn about the tradition, the more I think jazz is NOT improvisation. It’s a repertoire, including what gets played in the solos. Billy Hart calls it “America’s Classical Music” for many reasons.”
Ethan Iverson

Rest of the article here
Is Jazz Improvised? and, What About McCoy, Herbie, Keith, and Chick? (Twitter Files 1) | DO THE M@TH

My own feeling is that improvisation in jazz is misunderstood, mostly due to misconceptions created through popular beginner methods like Aebersold style chord scales. As Brad Mehldau puts it -

“. I remember observing the phenomenon of rootless “creativity” in my high school jazz band growing up…. It was sort of like playing scales up and down the horn. Rootless players are all alike, but every rooted player is rooted in his or her own way.”

So jazz is about the music, until it is internalised to a high level. It’s worth reading the rest of Brad’s discussion of influence here because he really digs into a lot of misunderstandings about the nature of originality in jazz (and by extension any art)

Carnegie 04 — Brad Mehldau

OTOH pertinent to the OP Brad does point out that a lot of accomplished, rooted jazz is kind of boring and it’s no surprise it appeals only to other practitioners.

Art is harder than craft, it turns out.

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[brent.h]

I think improvisation is a priority for a jazz musician.

Yes, of course it is important. The next important question is, "How much improvisation is necessary?"

My philosophy is: I'm never going to be as good as the composer who wrote this. He/She has spent countless hours fighting for every single note to be on the page. I'm not smarter than him/her, and I don't know the exact emotions they were feeling when they wrote this. But what I can do is to play the melody the best way I can to show my appreciation and respect for the composer.

I roughly know what it's like to compose because I've done a bit of it myself. It's can be real struggle to write something simple, concise, and melodic that moves a listener. It can take days, weeks of writing and constantly adjusting just to get a song right.

At the end of the day, as a person who plays this sort of music or 'jazz', I personally feel that it's my first job to convey what the composer intended. During the solos, I just change up the rhythms to the most important notes of the melody to make it slightly unpredictable. And that's it. (This approach to playing has been heavily influenced by my listening to lots of trad jazz.)

I've stopped worrying about the changes or trying to chase it or play through it. I've stopped worrying about creating motifs on the spot and following it through. None of that matters except the composer's melody. I play tunes and slight variations of it and that's it. I'm happy, the audience is happy. Solos should be short (say half or one chorus). My hot take is that if one can't express what one needs to in 16 or 32 bars, then one doesn't really understand/feel the song or one lacks clarity of thought.

Here's a snippet of Branford Marsalis talking about 'jazz' and 'improvisation'. See 20:40 to 21:57. (The lead up to this point is equally as good, starts at about 17mins).

Also, I recently saw a video of guitar teacher talking about his approach to improvisation, and he mentioned:

"Humility = Playing The Melody"

I love that.

[Christian Miller]

My hot take is that if one can't express what one needs to in 16 or 32 bars, then one doesn't really understand/feel the song or one lacks clarity of thought.

Yeah, Charlie, what were you thinking?

[brent.h]

lol

love the playing, but i did feel that it kinda meandered for quite a bit (its 6 choruses long).. it was more of CC exploring the underlying chords, playing the changes.. perhaps even demonstrating his improvisational prowess.. this was recorded in 1941 at Minton's after all, where bebop was taking shape and the musicians cared less about the listeners and cared more about the art

[joe2758]

I think the GAS are folk songs in a way (Not in the stylistic sense of the word)

[joe2758]

Example Chopin using the melody of a Polish folk song

American Composer X uses April in Paris

[Aiq]

[James W]

the musicians cared less about the listeners and cared more about the art

I find this distinction bizarre. It doesn't reflect at all how I personally think about music or any other art.

[brent.h]

perhaps my description is unclear...

what i meant was that in the after-hours at mintons, early bop musicians who played there cared less about playing to entertain/cater to audiences as compared to their jobs as section players in a big band swing context, and they experimented more with their playing..

(iirc that ken burns jazz documentary mentions this too)

[James W]

perhaps my description is unclear...

what i meant was that in the after-hours at mintons, early bop musicians who played there cared less about playing to entertain/cater to audiences as compared to their jobs as section players in a big band swing context, and they experimented more with their playing..

(iirc that ken burns jazz documentary mentions this too)

Ok, that makes sense.

(not a great fan of that documentary though...)

[AllanAllen]

(not a great fan of that documentary though...)

Is there a better documentary summarizing jazz in the same scope Burns did? Is there even a worse one, covering Buddy Bolden to the Art Ensemble of Chicago?

I know people criticized Burn's Jazz because it didn't have their favorite niche artist, but people complain about anything and everything.

[Christian Miller]

perhaps my description is unclear...

what i meant was that in the after-hours at mintons, early bop musicians who played there cared less about playing to entertain/cater to audiences as compared to their jobs as section players in a big band swing context, and they experimented more with their playing..

(iirc that ken burns jazz documentary mentions this too)

It was a thing that swing musicians who recorded a solo and a big hit record then had to play the exact same solo in every gig. It became part of the arrangement.

OTOH there's a limit to what you can fit on a 78 record. This does not necessarily represent the live performing practice of those bands. The Savory collection can be a bit of an eye opener on how these bands played on the bandstand.

While there's something to be said for brevity (Im a chorus or two kind of guy) with the older styles I think you always have to bear in mind the limitations of recording technology can distort our perceptions quite drastically.

What the audience will find entertaining also depends on the skill of the player and the context of the gig.

You always have to shape the overall performance to the context. What you play in a jazz club is different to what you play at a dance and different again to what you play at a function.

[JazzPadd]

My brother is an academic who was just looking up new books being published, and he found this:
Hating Jazz: A History of Its Disparagement, Mockery, and Other Forms of Abuse, Berish

I’ve been in a way waiting unknowingly for a book like this to be written, and it might help me to understand a little better why a dozen Gen Z students showed up at a jazz jam session last week. Thank you, and your brother, for bringing it to our attention.