Why Isn't Jazz Popular?

**Saxophone Tall** · 06-01-2021, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Troubadour_1991

Our appreciation of music is subjective. I'm sure most fans of hip hop would strongly disagree that there is no flow. Each artist has there own cadence and rhythmic feel. It might sound all the same to you if dislike the genre. Just like a nice scotch would taste like crap to someone who doesn't drink. Or how many people think jazz is a bunch of random notes and mental masturbation.

Sure, "beauty is the eye of the beholder," but to place fake robot drums, obscene, gratuitous, shamelessly commercially exploitative words designed to monetize suffering, presented without melody, singing or instruments at the same level as Jazz, Classical, Rock etc., is, in my view, roughly analogous to people paying to see ME play golf instead of Tiger Woods.

If only it were that easy!

Fore!

**DavidKOS** · 06-01-2021, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall

Carl Stalling, he ain't!

Ah, the great Carl Stalling!

**sgcim** · 06-01-2021, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Christian Miller

Bwahahahahhahahahahaah

i would have gotten away with it too, if it hadn’t been for you pesky kids

Laugh all you want; as soon as we clear up which UFOs abducted Neatomic, we'll be coming after you.

**Saxophone Tall** · 06-01-2021, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Stevebol

Sounds fabulous. I miss California. I need to get out of Las Vegas.
I promise not to be a squatter if they lower the cost of rent.

Don't hold your breath. They were building a 37 million dollar, might hold 200 people at best luxury apartment across the street from me ... for homeless people.

Clearly, the city has ZERO idea how to deal with housing.

The only way I could afford to live there is in a glorified "rooming house." Cheap rent, but a bunch of misfits and weirdos in the house; they came and went. I was "Covid stuck" there for 15 months. Back on the East coast now. Back in La La Land when the weather craps out!

**DavidKOS** · 06-01-2021, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by Troubadour_1991

Sure, nothing evolves in a vacuum. This is true for jazz as well, but its still a distinctly different genre from say the blues. My point was dance is a central focus of rap/hip hop. Its is own style where professional dancers can have their entire career in that space alone. So I don't think its accurate to say rap/hip hop isnt dance music.

I was agreeing with you - now "hip-hop" is one of the styles of dance a pro needs to be able to perform...along with tap, jazz, modern, ballet, pointe, etc.

**olliehalsall** · 06-02-2021, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Christian Miller

The video I posted above is by one of the leading musicians of this scene. I think it’s cool. I’m trying to work out if she plays the guitar, cos if that’s a guitar solo it’s 1) super hip and also 2) not even her number 2 or 3 instrument. Talented musician in any case.

Allan Holdsworth would have appreciated her approach to music. I wonder how she'd handle a Synthaxe?

**Stevebol** · 06-02-2021, 07:09 PM

Can we get back on topic?

JAZZ ISN'T A GENRE

I went from a band that hired schooled musicians, I'd call them jazz musicians, to different kind of band. A residency band. Guitarists have it easy in some situations. You can be of value in R&B if you know how to stay out of the way.

Is jazz a genre?

"We crave definitions for our art, and when we can’t describe or compare it, many get frustrated. Hence, the Jazz Police."

I can't form an opinion just because I played a few gigs with schooled musicians.
It's a good question. Is jazz a genre?

**Stevebol** · 06-02-2021, 07:18 PM

"You see, when you try to take something as creative as jazz and fit it into a box, it becomes unattractive to people."

"Unfortunately, over time a conservative contingent has dominated the jazz scene and branded it with a definition that is stuck in the 1950s. To their mind, jazz died in ’68 when Miles went electric"

**Stevebol** · 06-02-2021, 07:31 PM

I'd call Buffalo where I grew up, a fusion town. I guess it would be 'new school'? I'd have to practice it but I can play it. Some guys wanted to jam one time.
We jammed a little. They were cool. Don't you want to do this? If I did I would definitely be writing music.
Old school is bop.

No, way. I tried. I can't play that stuff. Remembering heads, Donna Lee at 300 BPM.

A guy who's very underrated and influencial is Steve Lukather.

**vsaumarez** · 06-02-2021, 11:12 PM

Jazz. A music in permanent recession. The only musicians who will play for a paid gig and then go and play for free. A musician's music. A music where the goal recedes further into the distance the closer you think you are to it. A music played by gods and aspired to by mere mortals. It will never die because real creative talent will always seek its challenge. That inevitably means it evolves in new directions, but nurturing the entertainment value keeps it afloat. That's important too.

**emanresu** · 06-12-2021, 11:32 AM

Hm. Turn more popish things into jazz. Like this:

I think it sounds fresh and fun.

**carvingcode** · 06-12-2021, 08:44 PM

Jazz is.

**citizenk74** · 06-13-2021, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by carvingcode

Jazz is.

**BWV** · 06-13-2021, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by emanresu

Hm. Turn more popish things into jazz. Like this:

I think it sounds fresh and fun.

not really popish though, think these guys do a better job:

**Litterick** · 06-16-2021, 03:54 AM

**Christian Miller** · 06-16-2021, 05:47 AM

Popish jazz is when you don't have the jazz police, so much as a confession box.

'Father, I played Stella in the key of B flat, and played the first two chords as Em7b5 A7b9.'

**grahambop** · 06-16-2021, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by Christian Miller

Popish jazz is when you don't have the jazz police, so much as a confession box.

'Father, I played Stella in the key of B flat, and played the first two chords as Em7b5 A7b9.'

Say 3 Cousin Marys, and we’ll overlook it this time.

**Average Joe** · 06-16-2021, 07:30 AM

people like their clubs. They like to feel part of an in crowd, exclusive, in the know. Jazz provide that for both practitioners and audiences alike. I can't readily think of a form of music where the players like to talk up the bar of entry quite as much. And let's not pretend that audiences, magazines etc can't get awfully cork-sniffy about the genre.

Is it any wonder if we lose out on a lot of the more casual music lovers and consumers? You need to give people an in.

**citizenk74** · 06-16-2021, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Average Joe

people like their clubs. They like to feel part of an in crowd, exclusive, in the know. Jazz provide that for both practitioners and audiences alike. I can't readily think of a form of music where the players like to talk up the bar of entry quite as much. And let's not pretend that audiences, magazines etc can't get awfully cork-sniffy about the genre.

Is it any wonder if we lose out on a lot of the more casual music lovers and consumers? You need to give people an in.

Precisely. The exclusivity is intrinsic to the perceived cachet of the "jazz thing." To be sure a lot of it is subject to measurement and analysis, but a lot of that is smoke and mirrors. It comes down to, for me, "is this enjoyable/stimulating/fun or in some way edifying?"

**EastwoodMike** · 12-22-2021, 05:20 AM

It happened again today.
Elvin Jones ‘Whew’

Elvin is no doubt talented. But man that song is to me everything why people switch off and out. Sorry.

One persons opinion but I would have thought I would at least have and insight and appreciation but I simply could not connect: and I must represent part of that maybe 0.5% or whatever of the listening population that enjoys jazz.

how do the very few stations that still broadcast musicians such as Elvin and honorary their work without the audience grimacing at the fractured mess that I heard? It must be hard. But I’m not sure if they should pander to only the most popular of tunes. At that point you are not much better than the classic rock station recycling the same set list every 3 mths for the last 15 years (looking at you MMM)

**Litterick** · 12-22-2021, 06:26 AM

I had not heard it before tonight. I like it.

Are listeners repelled by music that was new in 1969?

**garybaldy** · 12-22-2021, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by EastwoodMike

It happened again today.
Elvin Jones ‘Whew’

Elvin is no doubt talented. But man that song is to me everything why people switch off and out. Sorry.

One persons opinion but I would have thought I would at least have and insight and appreciation but I simply could not connect: and I must represent part of that maybe 0.5% or whatever of the listening population that enjoys jazz.

how do the very few stations that still broadcast musicians such as Elvin and honorary their work without the audience grimacing at the fractured mess that I heard? It must be hard. But I’m not sure if they should pander to only the most popular of tunes. At that point you are not much better than the classic rock station recycling the same set list every 3 mths for the last 15 years (looking at you MMM)

Great bass solo