Stuck in the 50s

[christianm77]

This is definitely Bach;

I will listen to this with a glass of red wine and a nice darkened room. The Perlman recording is up there....

Amazing what you can do with a repeated bassline innit?

[christianm77]

The only guitar player I ever heard who had a vibrato as sublime as Menuhin is Hendrix.

Hendrix's vibrato is perhaps the best thing about his playing. It's funny how rare people mention it...

[Stevebol]

I will listen to this with a glass of red wine and a nice darkened room. The Perlman recording is up there....

Amazing what you can do with a repeated bassline innit?

Perlman might be considered 'commercial' by some but I especially like his slow numbers. He's a fine player. Nowadays it's the women that are tearing it up on violin.

[cosmic gumbo]

Perhaps the point is that jazz has made some serious attempts to ape the classical music world - as it becomes more and more of an art music, the obvious direction. Jazz professors probably feel a bit like imposters compared to their classical colleagues.
.

Is this a reflection of attitudes in England? It's a quite inacurate depiction of the US scene. Jazz IS America's classical music....

[christianm77]

Is this a reflection of attitudes in England? It's a quite inacurate depiction of the US scene. Jazz IS America's classical music....

Jazz is not necessarily America's classical music from the perspective of the academies - take for example the recent comments made by Robert Blocker for instance:
Alex Ross: The Rest Is Noise: God and jazz at Yale

Besides America has classical music: Charles Ives, Aaron Copeland, Milton Babbitt etc.

I am influenced by Mike Longo's assertion that the elements of jazz that make it what it is (rhythm particularly) are not well served by academic teaching methods that have served Western Art music for centuries...

[cosmic gumbo]

I have a confession to make.

I don't listen to anyone who came out after 1970. I mean at all. I never listen to any contemporary players on any instrument

I play a 1954 Gibson 175 through a Polytone cube from the 60s. no effects, no digital anything, I tune up by ear and I don't even use reverb

the tunes I play and the way I play them are right out of 1955

A couple of years ago, Nicolas Payton described this as necrophilia.

[princeplanet]

A couple of years ago, Nicolas Payton described this as necrophilia.

Sure, so we're Necrophiliacs- but with good taste!

[Hep To The Jive]

Hendrix's vibrato is perhaps the best thing about his playing. It's funny how rare people mention it...

Just to continue Hendrix topic on 'Stuck in the 50's'...

To me, the Hendrix's main secret weapon was his funky rhythm feel, more so than his vibrato. I mean, Clapton had beautiful vibrato too, so did Peter Green, but Hendrix so stood out from those guys when he came to England, because of years on Chitlin Circuit in US, playing rhythm guitar in R&B bands, soaking the black tradition. I think his rhythm work was phenomenal, even though of course the vibrato thing was great too.

[princeplanet]

Just to continue Hendrix topic on 'Stuck in the 50's'...

To me, the Hendrix's main secret weapon was his funky rhythm feel, more so than his vibrato. I mean, Clapton had beautiful vibrato too, so did Peter Green, but Hendrix so stood out from those guys when he came to England, because of years on Chitlin Circuit in US, playing rhythm guitar in R&B bands, soaking the black tradition. I think his rhythm work was phenomenal, even though of course the vibrato thing was great too.

No one ever mentions his pick attack and choices of distortion that he really became at one with. For me these are the 2 things that made him stand out as far as his rock soloing was concerned. Combined with his rhythmic feel and psychadelic daring, he unwittingly hit on an unstoppable combo. But imagine listening to a hypothetical DI recording of even his best playing, and compare it to the same for someone like Benson, laying aside the style/genre difference, Who's playing would sound the most exciting? (not too mention which would seem more harmonically and rhythmically sophisticated....).

Sorry, but every time Hendrix comes up in a Jazz forum, I just feel compelled to remind Jazz newbies crossing over from Rock/Blues that it only takes an average talent a coupla years to sound kinda like Hendrix, but 40 years is still not gonna be enough to touch a guy like GB. There are plenty of Jazz guitar journeymen that will admit to this.

However, if there's no such newbies reading this, then I've just been preaching to the choir, for which I apologise for... er... and now it's back to the regular program...

[Stevebol]

Just to continue Hendrix topic on 'Stuck in the 50's'...

To me, the Hendrix's main secret weapon was his funky rhythm feel, more so than his vibrato. I mean, Clapton had beautiful vibrato too, so did Peter Green, but Hendrix so stood out from those guys when he came to England, because of years on Chitlin Circuit in US, playing rhythm guitar in R&B bands, soaking the black tradition. I think his rhythm work was phenomenal, even though of course the vibrato thing was great too.

Funky? a little bit. He was very versatile. R&B, Blues, folk, original rocker. Avant-garde.
He could bend a whole step and create a fluid vibrato. Few people can do that.
'Funk' means bass to me. Bass driven dance music.

[Stevebol]

Hendrix's vibrato is perhaps the best thing about his playing. It's funny how rare people mention it...

He was really one of a kind. I keep waiting for his music to get old but it doesn't. I spent a great deal of time playing and jamming to 60's rockers. I went into R&B but I don't feel like it was time wasted. Same with Charlie Christian. I stumbled upon of of his records soon after I started playing guitar.
Now it's all about electric bass for me.

[christianm77]

Just to continue Hendrix topic on 'Stuck in the 50's'...

To me, the Hendrix's main secret weapon was his funky rhythm feel, more so than his vibrato. I mean, Clapton had beautiful vibrato too, so did Peter Green, but Hendrix so stood out from those guys when he came to England, because of years on Chitlin Circuit in US, playing rhythm guitar in R&B bands, soaking the black tradition. I think his rhythm work was phenomenal, even though of course the vibrato thing was great too.

It's a bit like the Spanish Inquisition sketch....

Best thing about Jimi was his vibrato... oh and his funky rhythm feel.... hang on
Best two things about Jimi was his vibrato and his funky rhythm feel..... oh and his fantastic tone
Best three things about Jimi.....

I'll come in a gain shall I?

The R&B thing certainly marked him out from the Brit players.... I prefer Jimi's vibrato to Clapton's though, which is no diss of Eric. And Eric certainly has solid time, certainly in comparison to most rock guitar players - but I never felt that Eric was a polymetric player like Jimi - he's very much 1/8s and 1/16s locked in. It's interesting to compare styles of time...

[christianm77]

I just feel compelled to remind Jazz newbies crossing over from Rock/Blues that it only takes an average talent a coupla years to sound kinda like Hendrix, but 40 years is still not gonna be enough to touch a guy like GB. There are plenty of Jazz guitar journeymen that will admit to this.

I disagree. No one actually sounds like Hendrix. It's just that when you play rock, you are used to approximating things more... You can get the broad gestures, but the details are much harder... Jazz really hones your ears, and then you listen to the good rock guys and get a new appreciation, IMO.

[princeplanet]

I disagree. No one actually sounds like Hendrix. It's just that when you play rock, you are used to approximating things more... You can get the broad gestures, but the details are much harder... Jazz really hones your ears, and then you listen to the good rock guys and get a new appreciation, IMO.

That's why I said "kinda like"...

[dortmundjazzguitar]

That's why I said "kinda like"...

there are "kinda like" george bensons all over the planet.

[Nate Miller]

A couple of years ago, Nicolas Payton described this as necrophilia.

I'm not sure who Nicholas Payton is, but just because he can throw a foot ball don't mean he knows anything about sex with dead people

[princeplanet]

there are "kinda like" george bensons all over the planet.

Yeah, probably could be a thousand. Hendrix wannabe's? Probably a million...

[Nate Miller]

Jazz is not necessarily America's classical music from the perspective of the academies - take for example the recent comments made by Robert Blocker for instance:
Alex Ross: The Rest Is Noise: God and jazz at Yale

Besides America has classical music: Charles Ives, Aaron Copeland, Milton Babbitt etc.

I am influenced by Mike Longo's assertion that the elements of jazz that make it what it is (rhythm particularly) are not well served by academic teaching methods that have served Western Art music for centuries...

yes, but that's Yale. That's about the most UN American place on God's Earth. So I need better evidence. Some real grade A USDA choice evidence. American evidence. Not any of this commie pinko evidence. But an apple pie sitting on top of a smoking gun.

that sort of evidence

[destinytot]

Sure, so we're Necrophiliacs- but with good taste!

For me, that - and having good intentions - actually makes it OK.

[lawson-stone]

A couple of years ago, Nicolas Payton described this as necrophilia.

Ewww.

That reminds me of a moment in my "day job" in which I was translating an ultra-ancient text (ca. 1200 BC) in which a goddess named Anat searches the world over for her lover, the god Ba'al, who has been killed. She finally finds his body, and the text reads:

The beauty of her "brother,"
And the loveliness of her "brother,"
How delightful they were!
So she ate his flesh without a knife,
She drank his blood without a cup.


I don't think they were talking about the music of a prior generation...

[Nate Miller]

that's a neat little ensemble Destinytot

I like the way the horn lines moved. Very nice arrangement

I don't think I've ever played with a French horn player (that is what the brass instrument was, right?)

But flute, cello, and French horn with a guitar player who can sing old tunes...you got something there

and flute and guitar work so good together. It must be a lot of fun to play with them

[wizard3739]

Well, not that it's hot news, but today I am preparing to home record one of those songs from the pre-Bop era that is just mysteriously gorgeous to me and sublime - Tenderly. I just finished rehearsing the tune with my Tascam DR 05. I record a 'rhythm' track to rehearse playing the melody and improv. This great recorder is not the multi-track (4) version which I somewhat regret not getting, as the quality of the recordings and fidelity is shockingly good for a small recorder. Anyway I was just rehearsing over the track for recording this afternoon in my living room 'studio'.

I'm trying to develop a solo and duet or trio type repertoire with vocals with songs adaptable to solo or group performance. If I were sitting in a bar nursing a Jack Daniels on the rocks and a broken heart, I'd rather hear someone performing this song well than most any other style. Or dancing with a beautiful woman, this song is an aphrodisiac. As a musician what I truly love is the openness of the chord progression to soloing jazz style on a classical guitar. The freedom of this ballad. This to me is jazz.

And since it's time to make this post all about me (given that I can't make it all about you), I spent last night pining away over my illicit desire - to own a Daniel Slaman archtop nylon string. Of course I can't begin to afford one, but when I win the Lottery....

Definitely my favorite song and the first old standard my wife (jazz vocalist) & I learned back in the 50's.

wiz (Howie)

[Stevebol]

I'm not sure who Nicholas Payton is, but just because he can throw a foot ball don't mean he knows anything about sex with dead people

Nick is a character. The hippest of the younger guys. He's the Savior of Archaic Pop music.
I happen to be the Savior of R&B. Or maybe not. We'll see how it goes. It's not looking good TBH.
He declared Hip Hop to be dead as of 2013. He got that wrong. It's officially dead on the 30th anniversary of the release of Cameo's 'Word Up'. Late summer of this year.
We can finally stick a fork in Hip Hop as of then. It will be as dead as R&B.

I think Nick's comment about 'necrophilia' may be taken out of context. He wants to be both provocative and candid. As he would put it he 'soldiers for his shit'. Not enough musicians are willing to do that these days.
Nick does.

[Nate Miller]

I think Nick's comment about 'necrophilia' may be taken out of context.

yea, I'm mostly just feeling up the old jazz tunes

its still a long way from getting felt up to necrophilia

[cosmic gumbo]

I always had the notion that the jazz tradition was about moving forward while acknowledging the past. l accept that people are obsessed with nostalgia, it's a comfortable place to be for most people. Without a doubt, one of the biggest radio formats going is classic rock.....