Why do most blues musicians only play three chords?

[nyc chaz]

But they are not mainstream jazz musicians.
In my opinion, they are more into blues or fusion-blues.
They all play brilliantly.
Scofield can play blues and jazz brilliantly - he is a giant.

People that say Carlton can't play straight ahead jazz are just dead wrong.I've heard that on this forum before and it is just false.I'll give you that Robben Ford is more Fusion blues most times but Scott Henderson can blow on Giant Steps as well as anyone,if he wanted to just play straight ahead jazz all the time he is more than capable.

[rpjazzguitar]

I heard Son Seals at the Kingston Mines some years back. With the Chicago Fire band -- rhythm section and two horns iirc.

His comping was in perfect tune.

But, his soloing all sounded sharp. I got the impression that it was intentional, to create an edgy sound. At one level, blues may seem simple, but playing it really well is not as easy as it looks.

Second guitarist in Son Seals' group was a jazz guy who said he was asked specifically to not to play jazzy solos. He told me that after I complimented him on a jazzy solo.

[kris]

People that say Carlton can't play straight ahead jazz are just dead wrong.I've heard that on this forum before and it is just false.I'll give you that Robben Ford is more Fusion blues most times but Scott Henderson can blow on Giant Steps as well as anyone,if he wanted to just play straight ahead jazz all the time he is more than capable.

Look at Eric Clapton-He"s been playing simple blues all his life and he"s doing it well.

[vintagelove]

That's all they know, or perhaps better said, what they know.

Relatively few people have been exposed to the possibilities of the form, let alone seriously studied it.

It's like asking why doesn't everyone who knows math, understand calculus...

The majority probably just don't want to.

[kris]

That's all they know, or perhaps better said, what they know.

Relatively few people have been exposed to the possibilities of the form, let alone seriously studied it.

It's like asking why doesn't everyone who knows math, understand calculus...

The majority probably just don't want to.

Isn"t the audience bored with this 12-bar form and three chords?

[grahambop]

It seems to me that jazz guitarists would have to use thin strings to play real blues.
I think John Scofield once mentioned this.
I once heard L. Carlton on a guitar with thin strings - he played the standard in a non-jazz way. He actually played blues and used bending a lot.Great stuff!

On my 175 I use 12s which makes string bending quite hard, especially on the wound 3rd. Good for bebop but not ‘real’ blues.

I switched to 11s on my semi-hollow Ibanez and swapped the wound 3rd for a plain 18, this still works for jazz but I can bend the strings quite well too.

I think Scofield uses similar gauges, from what I could gather online.

[djg]

Isn"t the audience bored with this 12-bar form and three chords?

civilians dont count chords or measures or beats per measure. it's the jazz nerds who equal more with more interesting.

[Sigmund451]

Considering civilians, if you can tollerate it try to listen to typical music these days...it makes blues look like rocket science. I think the simple foundation structure really allows for a ton of freedom on top. Too many changes would tend to close that gap for a lot of players. I think then they would call it jazz

[kris]

Considering civilians, if you can tollerate it try to listen to typical music these days...it makes blues look like rocket science. I think the simple foundation structure really allows for a ton of freedom on top. Too many changes would tend to close that gap for a lot of players. I think then they would call it jazz

I think the problem is that blues musicians play most often on pentatonic and blues scale.... it can be boring at times.

[kris]

On my 175 I use 12s which makes string bending quite hard, especially on the wound 3rd. Good for bebop but not ‘real’ blues.

I switched to 11s on my semi-hollow Ibanez and swapped the wound 3rd for a plain 18, this still works for jazz but I can bend the strings quite well too.

I think Scofield uses similar gauges, from what I could gather online.

Scof also tried a Telecaster with thin strings – a Telecaster with singcoli pickups is sensitive to intonation.
Often the Telecaster would go out of tune after big bending.

[brent.h]

(Long comment)

After reading quite a bit on this forum and watching so many videos about the blues, I have come up with my own understanding of the blues. I don't know if this will make sense to anyone, but here's my take.

The blues is not about a scale. It is not about a minor pentonic scale with an added blue note. It is not the major pentatonic scale either. Since the early 20th century, people have been trying to come up with various 'scales' or 'collection of pitches' to capture this blues sound. However, they are poor approximations of what the blues is. See Sherman Irby talk about the blues scale:

The blues is not just about the AAB song form. Yes, it is the form we think of today; this form just happens to be the most played, most popular structure after WC Handy made it famous. However, there were plenty of tunes sung by Ethel Waters, Bessie Smith et al that weren't in AAB form. If we think that the blues is just about AAB form with a I, IV, V, then what these Vaudevillian Blues singers were doing with their music can't be called the blues, which sounds crazy, right? Because when they sing, it is recognisably the blues or blues-y. Check out Bessie Smith singing in a blues-y way. If you search the song below on Wikipedia, even the entry calls this form of music a 'dirty blues':

People say things like, "You know, Louis Armstrong's music is steeped in the blues, Lester Young's music is steeped in the blues, Charlie Parker's music is steeped in the blues, etc." If it's not the scale or song form, then what is the blues? What do people mean?

When people say "The Blues", to me, this is just shorthand for saying, "The Sound/Feeling of The Blues". This sound/feeling is more important than a scale or the song form. You can play a major scale and sound bluesy if you know what you're doing. I learnt this after listening to so much Frankie Trumbauer.

What is "The Sound/Feeling of The Blues"? To me, it is the sound of:

#1 - the African 6/8 rhythm rubbing against the common 4/4 rhythm. This creates a 3:2 polyrhythm. You have to have/play/reference this rhythm in your playing. It is the thing that makes your music sound like the human voice. Also, saxophonist and educator Mike Titlebaum mentions the importance of this feel and meter in one of his books.

#2 - micro-rhythms (being ahead/behind) rubbing against the beat or pulse. Check out LA and Nahre Sol discussing this at 6:49

#3 - microtones (sounds in between each chromatic note) rubbing against the fixed 12 tones of music. I've read in some places that kinda recommend that jazz and blues guitarists do not bend a note more than a semitone or half step. When you bend, you should make those movements very tiny to get that microtone. Again, this sound gives your lines a vocal quality.

#4 - 'blue notes' (b3, b5, b7) in the melody rubbing against the key’s major scale. There is a serious misunderstanding that just playing the minor blues scale (Root, b3, 4, b5, 5, b7) will give you an immediate blues sound. It does not. You can't just play the minor blues scale on its own; it has to rub against something like the major scale. E.g. You have to play the b3 against the 3 and the b7 against the 6. I can't find the video now, but Branford Marsalis talks about this too. This is EXACT reason why electric blues guitarists sound so damn flat and one-dimensional when compared to a half decent jazzer who knows the blues. The jazzer knows about the rub.

"The Sound/Feeling of The Blues" is about friction. It's about going against the oppression of 4/4 time, the oppression of the beat, the oppression of 12 tones, the oppression of the key. It was the musical language of resistance of the enslaved and disempowered African-Americans. Ethan Iverson talks about how swinging blues riffs both "deny" and "ignore" the harmony:

A “New” (meaning “Old”) Approach to Jazz Education | DO THE M@TH

I feel quite strongly about "The Sound/Feeling of The Blues".

Where I am, there are so so many guitar hobbyists at our local community club who think they are really good blues musicians just because they know all the minor pentatonic box shapes and standard electric-blues-guitarists licks over 3 chords. They don't even listen to blues standards; they just wanna show how much they can shred said licks. Every now and then when a saxophonist or a jazz musician joins their jam sessions, these guitar players always go, "WOW how do you do that? Why does your blues sound so different? What scales are you using?" To me, this is just wrong. It's so disconnected from the tradition.

It doesn't help that on YouTube you have an INFINITE number of "how to play this pentatonic blues box in this way or that way to sound like [insert famous electric blues guitarist]". So much talk about scales and shapes and boxes and licks and what to play, not how to play. It's just perpuating this dilution of a great American artform that has so much history.

[Jimmy Mack]

Quote : "The main star DJ - Frankie Crocker - was playing
some very hip stuff"

Frankie Crocker always played some very hip stuff. I listened to his radio shows her in NYC, in the 70's and right up to recent years, on Jazz stations and on "black" pop stations. Loved his musical taste!

[Stevebol]

Blues musicians are prone to excess. You only need one chord.

[Jimmy Mack]

You have nailed it brent.h !!!!
I hate some of the "blues" jams I have heard because guys just play Allman Bros. rock guitar. And talk about boring. Allman Bros are and were great , but people trying to copy them - not so much.

[luk_luk_guy]

Ethan Iverson talks about how swinging blues riffs both "deny" and "ignore" the harmony:

A “New” (meaning “Old”) Approach to Jazz Education | DO THE M@TH

I read this blog post a few weeks ago and have been working through his "core repertoire" ever since. I definitely feel more in touch with the "real" sound of the blues and of course lots of the Basie/Ellington/etc. riffs don't conform to the blues scale which is a more modern invention as far as I know.

I'm also almost done with "All Blues For Jazz Guitar" which has really opened my eyes from thinking all blues was just 3 chords and out lol. Subs in action;

[djg]

So much talk about scales and shapes and boxes and licks and what to play, not how to play. It's just perpuating this dilution of a great American artform that has so much history.

how is that any different from jazz?

[brent.h]

how is that any different from jazz?

Maybe what you're seeing in your recommended videos are jazz licks tutorials? I don't see any recommended to me.

I've turned off my watch history. I don't 'like' videos. I only save a few jazz videos in my 'Watch Later' list. I have a pretty blank library. Yet, when I'm watching something jazz related, my recommended videos are literally the following titles:

John Mayer Teaches His PENTATONIC EQUATOR Concept with fretLIVE Animations! (Guitar Lesson)

Practice your pentatonics like this every day to skyrocket your skills

How to Play The Pentatonic Scale (Fully Explained)

Why Guitar Players HATE John Mayer

BB King & John Mayer Live | Improv Jam | Part 1

Mohini Dey hears Jamiroquai for the FIRST TIME

How The Pros Play Blues (it's more simple than you think)

5 Levels of Blues Guitar (Complete Masterclass w/ Jack Ruch)

How to use the CAGED system to play a SOLO

The BEST Pentatonic Shape?

Pentatonic Scales: The Easy Way!!

Stop Getting Lost! The 2 Pentatonic Shapes EVERY Guitarist Must Know

[DawgBone]

I really detest blues jams and that garden-variety, electric-blues, SRV/Mayer wannabes.

I wanna tell 'em: "I don't give a damn about your licks, your pentatonic boxes, your tube screamers, your signature Fenders. Your understanding of the blues is so ridiculously shallow. Everything about your 'blues' culture is just wrong. It's just a gathering of weekend-warrior-guitar-hobbyist wankers, and it's not about the blues at all."

You wanna tell 'em, but you I'm betting you don't show up to show 'em all how it's done to begin with.

Be glad they exist, because most of them are turning into classic rock jams now so enjoy the proliferation of Tom Petty/Fleetwood Mac/Sublime cover bands.

[DawgBone]

(Long comment)

After reading quite a bit on this forum and watching so many videos about the blues, I have come up with my own understanding of the blues. I don't know if this will make sense to anyone, but here's my take.

The blues is not about a scale. It is not about a minor pentonic scale with an added blue note. It is not the major pentatonic scale either. Since the early 20th century, people have been trying to come up with various 'scales' or 'collection of pitches' to capture this blues sound. However, they are poor approximations of what the blues is. See Sherman Irby talk about the blues scale:

The blues is not just about the AAB song form. Yes, it is the form we think of today; this form just happens to be the most played, most popular structure after WC Handy made it famous. However, there were plenty of tunes sung by Ethel Waters, Bessie Smith et al that weren't in AAB form. If we think that the blues is just about AAB form with a I, IV, V, then what these Vaudevillian Blues singers were doing with their music can't be called the blues, which sounds crazy, right? Because when they sing, it is recognisably the blues or blues-y. Check out Bessie Smith singing in a blues-y way. If you search the song below on Wikipedia, even the entry calls this form of music a 'dirty blues':

People say things like, "You know, Louis Armstrong's music is steeped in the blues, Lester Young's music is steeped in the blues, Charlie Parker's music is steeped in the blues, etc." If it's not the scale or song form, then what is the blues? What do people mean?

When people say "The Blues", to me, this is just shorthand for saying, "The Sound/Feeling of The Blues". This sound/feeling is more important than a scale or the song form. You can play a major scale and sound bluesy if you know what you're doing. I learnt this after listening to so much Frankie Trumbauer.

What is "The Sound/Feeling of The Blues"? To me, it is the sound of:

#1 - the African 6/8 rhythm rubbing against the common 4/4 rhythm. This creates a 3:2 polyrhythm. You have to have/play/reference this rhythm in your playing. It is the thing that makes your music sound like the human voice. Also, saxophonist and educator Mike Titlebaum mentions the importance of this feel and meter in one of his books.

#2 - micro-rhythms (being ahead/behind) rubbing against the beat or pulse. Check out LA and Nahre Sol discussing this at 6:49

#3 - microtones (sounds in between each chromatic note) rubbing against the fixed 12 tones of music. I've read in some places that kinda recommend that jazz and blues guitarists do not bend a note more than a semitone or half step. When you bend, you should make those movements very tiny to get that microtone. Again, this sound gives your lines a vocal quality.

#4 - 'blue notes' (b3, b5, b7) in the melody rubbing against the key’s major scale. There is a serious misunderstanding that just playing the minor blues scale (Root, b3, 4, b5, 5, b7) will give you an immediate blues sound. It does not. You can't just play the minor blues scale on its own; it has to rub against something like the major scale. E.g. You have to play the b3 against the 3 and the b7 against the 6. I can't find the video now, but Branford Marsalis talks about this too. This is EXACT reason why electric blues guitarists sound so damn flat and one-dimensional when compared to a half decent jazzer who knows the blues. The jazzer knows about the rub.

"The Sound/Feeling of The Blues" is about friction. It's about going against the oppression of 4/4 time, the oppression of the beat, the oppression of 12 tones, the oppression of the key. It was the musical language of resistance of the enslaved and disempowered African-Americans. Ethan Iverson talks about how swinging blues riffs both "deny" and "ignore" the harmony:

A “New” (meaning “Old”) Approach to Jazz Education | DO THE M@TH

I feel quite strongly about "The Sound/Feeling of The Blues".

Where I am, there are so so many guitar hobbyists at our local community club who think they are really good blues musicians just because they know all the minor pentatonic box shapes and standard electric-blues-guitarists licks over 3 chords. They don't even listen to blues standards; they just wanna show how much they can shred said licks. Every now and then when a saxophonist or a jazz musician joins their jam sessions, these guitar players always go, "WOW how do you do that? Why does your blues sound so different? What scales are you using?" To me, this is just wrong. It's so disconnected from the tradition.

It doesn't help that on YouTube you have an INFINITE number of "how to play this pentatonic blues box in this way or that way to sound like [insert famous electric blues guitarist]". So much talk about scales and shapes and boxes and licks and what to play, not how to play. It's just perpuating this dilution of a great American artform that has so much history.

This is the best post here.

[wolflen]

I read this blog post a few weeks ago and have been working through his "core repertoire" ever since. I definitely feel more in touch with the "real" sound of the blues and of course lots of the Basie/Ellington/etc. riffs don't conform to the blues scale which is a more modern invention as far as I know.

I'm also almost done with "All Blues For Jazz Guitar" which has really opened my eyes from thinking all blues was just 3 chords and out lol. Subs in action;

Speaking of "All Blues"

Check what Miles did with it. The solos are very hip blues lines

[djg]

Maybe what you're seeing in your recommended videos are jazz licks tutorials? I don't see any recommended to me.

i dont watch tutorials. if one pops up i immediately block the channel. life is too short.

[Christian Miller]

i dont watch tutorials. if one pops up i immediately block the channel. life is too short.

Does that mean YouTube stops recommending them?


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[djg]

guitar solo starts at 3:10. i wish there were jazz guitarists who play with that attitude. jackie mclean had that bad-ass attitude. rollins, monk. are there any more bad-asses left in jazz?

anyway 3:30 is totally bad-ass. fck genres. i love that guy to death.

[djg]

Does that mean YouTube stops recommending them?

dunno. i use a mix of "dont recommend channel" and " not interested" i never get any tutorials. or beato. or neely. the algo gets back at me by recommending videos with *zero* views and rn recommends "don was: what's in my bag". yikes! i also watched some gianmarco soresi vids and now get plastered with vids about the NYC election and some guy that cuomo cant pronounce. i live in germany. youtube, it's a hate/hate relationship.

[Christian Miller]

dunno. i use a mix of "dont recommend channel" and " not interested" i never get any tutorials. or beato. or neely. the algo gets back at me by recommending videos with *zero* views and rn recommends "don was: what's in my bag". yikes! i also watched some gianmarco soresi vids and now get plastered with vids about the NYC election and some guy that cuomo cant pronounce. i live in germany. youtube, it's a hate/hate relationship.

TBF I’d probably watch all of that


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