Your biggest bang-for-the-buck thing to do in the shed.

[marcwhy]

This is a big one. How do you work on this?

Myself, I've started recording all my practice sessions in Logic Pro to see how all my lines and comping rhythms line up against the software's grid - am I rushing, on the beat, or dragging.

It's been brutal and humbling.

Thanks!
Wow, that's a cool, hi-tech way to do this! In general, though, any "recording/listening back" process can do wonders, regardless of what you're working on (IMO)!

There are many ways of working on rhythm; two formal ways I do this is using exercises from a couple of my favorite books (and then recording and listening back!):

Bergonzi - Rhythms

Dave Allen - Advanced Rhythmic Concepts


Marc

[pamosmusic]

Thanks!
Wow, that's a cool, hi-tech way to do this! In general, though, any "recording/listening back" process can do wonders, regardless of what you're working on (IMO)!

There are many ways of working on rhythm; two formal ways I do this is using exercises from a couple of my favorite books (and then recording and listening back!):

Bergonzi - Rhythms

Dave Allen - Advanced Rhythmic Concepts


Marc

nice recs … you can never go wrong with Bergonzi.

Whats the Dave Allen one get into?

[marcwhy]

nice recs … you can never go wrong with Bergonzi.

Whats the Dave Allen one get into?

Thanks!
Dave's book gets into poly-rhythms, playing over 5/4, 7/4, etc - fun stuff!

[GuyBoden]

Thanks!
Wow, that's a cool, hi-tech way to do this! In general, though, any "recording/listening back" process can do wonders, regardless of what you're working on (IMO)!

There are many ways of working on rhythm; two formal ways I do this is using exercises from a couple of my favorite books (and then recording and listening back!):

Bergonzi - Rhythms

Dave Allen - Advanced Rhythmic Concepts


Marc

Very Good stuff, but............................................

For the less advanced Hobby players like myself, I think that learning to play Basic Jazz Rhythms accurately with a metronome would be more beneficial than the advanced concepts.

Fellow Hobby Jazz guitarists I would recommend playing this Basic Jazz Rhythm exercise shown below with a metronome, until you can hear it in your sleep.

[CliffR]

I got my biggest-bang-for-the-buck from this one weird trick I found on youtube.

[AllanAllen]

The revelation that I should do all the stuff people who can play say is basic and essential but people who can't play say is B.S.

C major scale in 5 positions
5 positions through 12 keys

C major scale in 3rds
3rds through the other 4 positions
3rds through 5 positions in 12 keys

c major scale in triads
C major triads through the other 4 positions
traids through 5 positions in 12 keys

C major scale in 7th chords
7th chords through 4 other positions
7th chords through 5 positions in 12 keys

Learn to read music, but also learn music by ear. Kenny Burrell has a lot of trio albums, learning the intros is a good way to start learning chords by ear. Much easier for me than trying to learn chords off Ellington recordings where the 16 piece band isn't limited by a fretboard.

I learn chord grips and substitutions bit by bit. You can go a long way with three grips and some Red Garland rhythms, but eventually that got stale and I started adding more.

[pamosmusic]

I got my biggest-bang-for-the-buck from this one weird trick I found on youtube.

Kind of weird to call Christian "one weird trick," but I see you.

[pamosmusic]

The revelation that I should do all the stuff people who can play say is basic and essential but people who can't play say is B.S.

C major scale in 5 positions
5 positions through 12 keys

C major scale in 3rds
3rds through the other 4 positions
3rds through 5 positions in 12 keys

c major scale in triads
C major triads through the other 4 positions
traids through 5 positions in 12 keys

C major scale in 7th chords
7th chords through 4 other positions
7th chords through 5 positions in 12 keys

Learn to read music, but also learn music by ear. Kenny Burrell has a lot of trio albums, learning the intros is a good way to start learning chords by ear. Much easier for me than trying to learn chords off Ellington recordings where the 16 piece band isn't limited by a fretboard.

I learn chord grips and substitutions bit by bit. You can go a long way with three grips and some Red Garland rhythms, but eventually that got stale and I started adding more.

Allan, you need to get The Serious Jazz Practice Book. You would love that sh**.

I was super into it for a long time and readily admit that much of it is BS and wholly unnecessary. It is, however, super cool.

[James W]

Allan, you need to get The Serious Jazz Practice Book. You would love that sh**.

I was super into it for a long time and readily admit that much of it is BS and wholly unnecessary. It is, however, super cool.

I bought that book recently and agree with Peter. However, I don't think any of it is BS.

I'm not sure Allan would categorise me as 'someone who can play' (would he categorise himself as 'someone who can play' I wonder?) but I stand by my advice of composing etudes. Besides which, not every recommendation works for everyone. Some things might be good for some people but not others etc.

[pamosmusic]

I bought that book recently and agree with Peter. However, I don't think any of it is BS.

Im joking a little bit. I guess I’d relate it to something like Barry Harris’s ABCs which is the stuff Allan mentioned, plus a few other things. It’s kind of BEBOP ESSENTIALS and fits on maybe a single full page.

This is a hundred plus pages with loads of stuff that I’ve never even made it to, let alone used.

But yeah — I agree. It’s awesome. It’s stuff I’ve never played (mostly in the diminished and chromatic sections at this point) but there’s nothing in it that I would decline to play if I could. I go back to it all the time. Wore out two copies and finally just bought the ebook version. I think playing the entire “diatonic” section is sort of my benchmark for whether or not I know a scale.

I guess to rephrase, none of its bs but it’s certainly much more than I would ever suggest that someone needs to know

[James W]

Im joking a little bit. I guess I’d relate it to something like Barry Harris’s ABCs which is the stuff Allan mentioned, plus a few other things. It’s kind of BEBOP ESSENTIALS and fits on maybe a single full page.

This is a hundred plus pages with loads of stuff that I’ve never even made it to, let alone used.

But yeah — I agree. It’s awesome. It’s stuff I’ve never played (mostly in the diminished and chromatic sections at this point) but there’s nothing in it that I would decline to play if I could. I go back to it all the time. Wore out two copies and finally just bought the ebook version. I think playing the entire “diatonic” section is sort of my benchmark for whether or not I know a scale.

I guess to rephrase, none of its bs but it’s certainly much more than I would ever suggest that someone needs to know

True, but I guess I quite like the 'too much-ness' of some of these books. I like the comprehensiveness - not that you'll learn it all, but can dip into other sections and get something from it. (But then, I am someone who likes having a large collection of books, more than I generally give myself time to read, but it's nice having them there).

I don't suppose you have checked out his second Serious Jazz Practice book?

[pamosmusic]

True, but I guess I quite like the 'too much-ness' of some of these books. I like the comprehensiveness - not that you'll learn it all, but can dip into other sections and get something from it. (But then, I am someone who likes having a large collection of books, more than I generally give myself time to read, but it's nice having them there).

I don't suppose you have checked out his second Serious Jazz Practice book?

I try to only buy books that are too-much. Not kidding either. I love the omnibooks and big wild compendiums of stuff for the reason you describe up there.

I have checked out the second one. I got it for Christmas a very long time ago and since lost it. I remember not getting quite as much out of it but I also don't think I really spent any time in it. Pretty sure I lost it when I moved apartments a few years after I got it.

It's kind of been like ... the third book down on my wish list for a long time and I haven't gotten around to it.

[AllanAllen]

Allan, you need to get The Serious Jazz Practice Book. You would love that sh**.

I was super into it for a long time and readily admit that much of it is BS and wholly unnecessary. It is, however, super cool.

I kind of moved off the scale stuff, now I'm working on bebop heads and warming up with reviewing old heads. Sometimes I think I could start up the same exhaustive approach to minor. 1 2 b3 4 5 6 7. Whatever that one is, I can't even keep the names straight. It doesn't seem as beneficial with how flexible minor is.

(would he categorise himself as 'someone who can play' I wonder?)

Doubtful, but I do believe I've done a lot of work and have gotten better.

For etudes, I'd rather spend time learning a bebop head than writing an etude myself. But I'm in my 40s with kids and a non-musical career, so I try to keep my hour of practice fruitful.

[Christian Miller]

I try to only buy books that are too-much. Not kidding either. I love the omnibooks and big wild compendiums of stuff for the reason you describe up there.

I'm not into them. Half of the time they can write the basic conceit down on half a side of A4 write 'the rest is left as an exercise to the student.'

This is probably why my YouTube doesn't do bette.r

[Christian Miller]

Im joking a little bit. I guess I’d relate it to something like Barry Harris’s ABCs which is the stuff Allan mentioned, plus a few other things. It’s kind of BEBOP ESSENTIALS and fits on maybe a single full page.

That's more like it. Is there a link?

[James W]

Doubtful, but I do believe I've done a lot of work and have gotten better.

Fair enough. I've done a lot of work but up until recently, felt I wasn't really rewarded for all that work because of my lousy right hand technique. Having changed to fingerstyle relatively recently, I sense things are on the up.

But the point I was trying to make was that I wouldn't dismiss advice on the basis of who can play and who can't - not always. Sometimes great players do not make great teachers but some advice might be helpful even if it's from someone who hasn't got it all together yet... I dislike the simple binary of 'can' versus 'can't'...

For etudes, I'd rather spend time learning a bebop head than writing an etude myself. But I'm in my 40s with kids and a non-musical career, so I try to keep my hour of practice fruitful.

Again, fair enough. I think one of the reasons for writing etudes is that you turn things like Stella or ATTYA into bop tunes by writing the etudes on them... and it can sound more musical than sort of aimlessly improvising on them. It gives you something to work with, something objective that you can then make variations of. Just my two cents, anyway...

[Christian Miller]

Barry Harris's improvisation class largely consisted of coming up with a bop line on a standard phrase by phrase, explaining how he put it together as we went.

Is a good way to work.

If you only play other people's music you'll only be able to play other people's music. If you want to be able to come up with your own music, you need to practice that too.

doesn't have to be a technical study. That's why I'm sniffy about the term 'etude' in this context because it implies a technical aspect, which isn't always what you are trying to do.

[pamosmusic]

Barry Harris's improvisation class largely consisted of coming up with a bop line on a standard phrase by phrase, explaining how he put it together as we went.

Is a good way to work.

If you only play other people's music you'll only be able to play other people's music. If you want to be able to come up with your own music, you need to practice that too.

doesn't have to be a technical study. That's why I'm sniffy about the term 'etude' in this context because it implies a technical aspect, which isn't always what you are trying to do.

Yeah I think just about everyone will do some sort of line-building type thing, even if they don't write them down. On the formal side would be composing lines, maybe Jimmy Raney's process a notch less formal, Barry's line-building a little less formal than that, all the way down to sort of structured/restricted improvising.

[James W]

doesn't have to be a technical study. That's why I'm sniffy about the term 'etude' in this context because it implies a technical aspect, which isn't always what you are trying to do.

True. I mean, in the chorus on Stella that I've composed and can almost play at tempo (which I'll post hopefully some time soon) I deliberately stuck to diatonic notes choices according to each chord, and tried to make it sound nice even with these sort of vanilla note choices. That was the aim or theme of this particular composed chorus - the plan being that the next ones I write will introduce more chromaticism with enclosures, indirect resolution etc.

So, not an 'etude' as such, but rather a focussed try-out of particular techniques (but perhaps 'etude' is more concise, if not as accurate...)

[Christian Miller]

True. I mean, in the chorus on Stella that I've composed and can almost play at tempo (which I'll post hopefully some time soon) I deliberately stuck to diatonic notes choices according to each chord, and tried to make it sound nice even with these sort of vanilla note choices. That was the aim or theme of this particular composed chorus - the plan being that the next ones I write will introduce more chromaticism with enclosures, indirect resolution etc.

So, not an 'etude' as such, but rather a focussed try-out of particular techniques (but perhaps 'etude' is more concise, if not as accurate...)

I think in this exercise you'd be aiming to play something that was within ones technical ability to play at first go, putting together a piece of music in a sort of middle ground between improvisation and composition that you might forget after the session, rather than writing something slightly beyond your present ability and then mastering it over a number of practice sessions.

Both useful exercises, but different ones.

The aim is more getting used to putting it together. I mean Barry would do this at 200bpm+ so it was an absolute roast of course, but I think that's the idea.

Going back the OT, I kind of think that knowing what it is you are trying to work on and how to work on it, and being able to focus your practice activities in that specific area is a great thing to develop.

And when you aren't sure about any of that stuff, transcribing always works as much as I might forget it lol.

[GuyBoden]

I try to only buy books that are too-much.

I'm lucky enough to play regular weekly jams with a veteran Jazz guitar player, these jams have been more beneficial than any books.

[pamosmusic]

I'm lucky enough to play regular weekly jams with a veteran Jazz guitar player, these jams have been more beneficial than any books.

well. yeah.

but presumably, one would both perform and practice.

[GuyBoden]

well. yeah.

but presumably, one would both perform and practice.

Yes, I have plenty of practice material for every day of the week, after receiving advice from a veteran Jazz guitarist during the jam session. It's not from a book.

[pamosmusic]

Yes, I have plenty of practice material for every day of the week, after receiving advice from a veteran Jazz guitarist during the jam session. It's not from a book.

Okay?

[Strat-itis]

Etudes are great for technique, and having some technique built up is essential for playing with a good time feel. So.. they could be a good idea. :P They don't take that much work either to work up some facility.