Notation Question - Should I play these notes?

[random_user]

Hello everyone,

I am playing guitar in the pit orchestra for my highschool's musical, and am confused about the slash notation in certain parts.

Throughout the score, notes printed in a smaller font are used to indicate cues played by other instruments. This is to keep players on track, especially during long periods of rest. Usually these cues have the name of the instrument that is to play them written above (e.g. "tpt" or "sax," or "solo" if I am the one cueing others).

However, there are a couple places with tiny notes where it is ambiguous what, if at all, I am supposed to play.


For example, in measures 143-147, there are tiny whole notes in slash notation and tiny quarter notes at the same time. What the heck am I supposed to play?




And in measures 344-353, there are tiny slash notation triplets, and generic slash notation chords with tiny whole notes underneath. What parts do I play?




I will gladly appreciate any help.

[AllanAllen]

The piano player in my big band told me the slashes mean “comp appropriately”

What’s the song and arranger? I listen to other bands play the charts on YouTube to get an idea of appropriately.

[Mick-7]

That's just the comping rhythm....

In 4/4:
4/4: | / / / / | 3 over 4 | / / / |



"For example, in measures 143-147, there are tiny whole notes in slash notation and tiny quarter notes at the same time. What the heck am I supposed to play?"

The whole note or dotted half note at the beginning of each bar would be sustained while the notes that follow it are played. But I'd just ignore the notes and play the written chords in the rhythms notated.

[ragman1]

I am playing guitar in the pit orchestra for my highschool's musical, and am confused about the slash notation in certain parts.

Forgive me if this seems rude, but why are you asking us here? Who gave you the score? If it's an orchestra don't you have a leader, conductor or teacher? Someone selected the score and gave it to you. Why don't you ask them?

What happens if you get contradictory answers here? Even if there is a universally accepted answer to this how do you know the rest of the orchestra will know it too?

Ask the person who supplied the score!

[starjasmine]

Yeah, it could be written more clearly.

- I think you are interpreting the tiny notes correctly: they are there to indicate to you what you should hear in other parts of the band.
- 139-146 is confusing in general - all of the notes appear to be smaller than the ones in, say, 341-342 or 354, which are definitely things you should play as written, and you are not tacet here, so my interpretation of 139-146 as well as 143-147 is (as Allan says) "comp appropriately" with the tiny notes showing you what you should hear elsewhere in the band. As long as you don't clash with that, whatever you play should be fine.
- 344, 348, 352 are showing you half-note triplet hits that you should make sure to reflect in your comping. Likely that the whole band is hitting this rhythm. Tiny notes again show notes happening elsewhere in the band. Just writing generic rhythms with the slash chords would be sufficient, so IDK what the redundancy (tiny notes) are supposed to add here. Perhaps the arranger really wants you to know that you're not always going to be in lockstep with the rest of the band; for example, I interpret 350 to say that someone is holding a G while you are comping appropriately (some sort of rhythm, not a whole note, probably four-to-the bar since the slashes don't indicate some other rhythm) on a C maj chord with E as the bass note.

It isn't that unusual for charts to be ambiguous or even wrong, so use your ear and your judgment, and (although Ragman could have said it more nicely) it is perfectly appropriate to ask the director/conductor for some guidance if you feel that you need it.

[rpjazzguitar]

There's a whole note in bar 343 that has a round note head. But some of the noteheads in the bars you're asking about look angular to me. Diamonds or squarish noteheads. I'm wondering if the squarish noteheads refer to whole chords. But, then I can't explain why they look like B against the G root chords and Eb against a Bb/D. So, I'm not sure.

But, if I had to do something with no chance to ask, I'd consider playing chords for the squarish note heads and adding in the notes indicated in normal noteheads. I don't see how that can make trouble, even if you end up doubling somebody else needlessly. Where there's what looks like an Eb when the chord symbol is Bb/D, I would play the chord and ignore the Eb while listening carefully to the band to see what it might mean.

[ragman1]

This is a waste of time. The only person who can tell this poster how to play it as required is the person who supplied the score.

And if he/she can't they'll just to have a meeting about it :-)

[Christian Miller]

Tbh when I see charts like this I wonder if the arranger knows what he wants you to play

As a general rule, be prepared to play single notes or just chords depending on the Music Director’s call.


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[BreckerFan]

I'm gonna guess the first one is telling you to strike the whole chord on beat one and arpeggiate the sustained chord with the given notes.

The second one just seems like a triplet comping rhythm with the bass notes spelled out, which seems redundant given the slash chords.

I did pit in high school too. Lots of strange things in those books, but it was a really fun experience. I hope you're enjoying it!

[AllanAllen]

This is a waste of time. The only person who can tell this poster how to play it as required is the person who supplied the score.

And if he/she can't they'll just to have a meeting about it :-)

Dude chill out.

It’s Christmas break here. If the kids in school band he’s not getting any answers or communication till at least January 5th.

[rpjazzguitar]

I'm gonna guess the first one is telling you to strike the whole chord on beat one and arpeggiate the sustained chord with the given notes.

The second one just seems like a triplet comping rhythm with the bass notes spelled out, which seems redundant given the slash chords.

I did pit in high school too. Lots of strange things in those books, but it was a really fun experience. I hope you're enjoying it!

I agree and that's clearer than the way I said it.

I still don't understand why the diamond note heads are written out as Bs against G root chords and Eb against the others.

With current software, you could make those Eb noteheads into slashes which would be pretty clear. Maybe that wasn't possible with the software this chart was created with?

143 is playable by holding the chord shape, but 144 is not (for me anyway) unless I omit the low D. It's likely to be in the bass, so that ought to work.

[garybaldy]

I agree and that's clearer than the way I said it.

I still don't understand why the diamond note heads are written out as Bs against G root chords and Eb against the others.

With current software, you could make those Eb noteheads into slashes which would be pretty clear. Maybe that wasn't possible with the software this chart was created with?

143 is playable by holding the chord shape, but 144 is not (for me anyway) unless I omit the low D. It's likely to be in the bass, so that ought to work.

Diamond notes don't usually have pitch

[rpjazzguitar]

Look at 349 and 353.

349 indicates a whole note held (low D) while playing quarter note chords, specified by slashes, Dm on beats 2, 3 and 4.

Or, you could assume that the slashes mean "comp appropriately" - over a D. I'd play quarter notes the first time through and listen to what else is going on.

353 shows a Dm over a diamond whole note on the fourth line of the staff -- D note. What could it mean other than play a Dm and hold it for 4 beats? And, if that's true, all the diamond note heads would seem to indicate hitting a chord. And, the arranger located the notehead on a chord tone? I'm still not certain about that.

Diamond noteheads in a guitar chart often indicate harmonics. But it's hard to imagine that the arranger wants an Eb harmonic while, somehow, the guitarist is strumming a Bb/D and arpeggiating part of it. So, I'm guessing that they don't indicate harmonics in this case.

Before asking the leader, I might try to get a look at the piano and bass charts. So, if the bass has the D against Bb/D, for example, I wouldn't worry about playing the D at the bottom of that chord. And, the piano chart might have the other chords written out.

[Mick-7]

Tbh when I see charts like this I wonder if the arranger knows what he wants you to play

I think that very often they do not, because they do not know the instrument, the guitar part is often an after-thought in a big band arrangement, "Oh, that's right, there's a guitar player in the band, I'll have to write something for them, dammit!"

[paulkogut]

I think the notation in bar 143-147 is trying to indicate ringing, fingerpicked arpeggiated chords (How many of us started out with Stairway To Heaven?) but the Eb note over the Bb chord is a little suspect....

I'm not sure the arranger has the best grasp of how to notate for guitar. Is there a recording of this show, not necessarily with this particular arrangement , but enough to understand the bag they expect from the guitar (upfront and rocking, atmospheric and blending, etc)?

It's been years since I attempted this kind of work, last thing was an emergency "can you leave for the theater NOW?" call for Hairspray. I know I missed a ton of what was written, but I got the sound and vibe right and everyone went home happy

Best wishes for everyone's music!

PK

[garybaldy]

Look at 349 and 353.

349 indicates a whole note held (low D) while playing quarter note chords, specified by slashes, Dm on beats 2, 3 and 4.

Or, you could assume that the slashes mean "comp appropriately" - over a D. I'd play quarter notes the first time through and listen to what else is going on.

353 shows a Dm over a diamond whole note on the fourth line of the staff -- D note. What could it mean other than play a Dm and hold it for 4 beats? And, if that's true, all the diamond note heads would seem to indicate hitting a chord. And, the arranger located the notehead on a chord tone? I'm still not certain about that.

Diamond noteheads in a guitar chart often indicate harmonics. But it's hard to imagine that the arranger wants an Eb harmonic while, somehow, the guitarist is strumming a Bb/D and arpeggiating part of it. So, I'm guessing that they don't indicate harmonics in this case.

Before asking the leader, I might try to get a look at the piano and bass charts. So, if the bass has the D against Bb/D, for example, I wouldn't worry about playing the D at the bottom of that chord. And, the piano chart might have the other chords written out.

Ref. my post #12, Here's an example of diamond notation being rhythm only.

[rpjazzguitar]

Ref. my post #12, Here's an example of diamond notation being rhythm only.

Didn't see an example, just a statement that diamond notes don't usually have pitch.

Diamond note heads in guitar music usually represent harmonics, which do have pitch.

And, in this chart the diamond noteheads are on different staff lines, for some reason.

Common usage for rhythm only would be slash noteheads, not diamonds. But, that does presume that the software can do that.

[garybaldy]

Didn't see an example, just a statement that diamond notes don't usually have pitch.

Diamond note heads in guitar music usually represent harmonics, which do have pitch.

And, in this chart the diamond noteheads are on different staff lines, for some reason.

Common usage for rhythm only would be slash noteheads, not diamonds. But, that does presume that the software can do that.

Sorry, thought I'd copied and pasted a chart. I'll try again.

[garybaldy]

Didn't see an example, just a statement that diamond notes don't usually have pitch.

Diamond note heads in guitar music usually represent harmonics, which do have pitch.

And, in this chart the diamond noteheads are on different staff lines, for some reason.

Common usage for rhythm only would be slash noteheads, not diamonds. But, that does presume that the software can do that.

Sorry, best I can do at the mo!! bars 20 and 22.

[rpjazzguitar]

I think it's fair to say that different arrangers/copyists have different approaches. Even now, there's no single style convention that's universal.

In the example you provided, it looks like hits are specified by a note that looks like an ordinary Bb. I think this is shown by the first three bars on the second line. It's written out and then it looks like the charts says "sim" and changes the notation to slashes. I don't see any indications of hits using a different note than Bb.

The Bb's come back when hits need to be specified. And, when there's a hit on the second and fourth beats of the measure, the chart specifies a half note Bb -- for some reason, with a diamond looking notehead. I could be convinced, easily I think, that the shape of that notehead is only to make sure it doesn't look like a quarter note, but, I really don't know.

[random_user]

Thank you all for the helpful replies! This is my first time posting on the forum and I did not expect so many detailed responses so soon!

I now have a much better idea on how to interpret these sections of music. I agree that the diamond-shaped noteheads must be for rhythm. As for the smaller, round notes, I will probably arpeggiate the ones in the first example and ignore the ones in the second, as I have checked and they are being played by another instrument. Also, I have listened to tracks that my conductor has provided. I couldn't pick out exactly what the guitar was doing, but I do know what vibe to go for and what comping will be appropriate.

It is also VERY TRUE that I should ask my conductor how to play it. In fact, I should've asked her weeks ago and the only reason I am posting here is because I am stupid and irresponsible . I might ask after the break, but we start dress rehearsals on the Tuesday so... I don't think she would be very pleased with my question . (I HAVE learned my music properly, I was only confused with these sections and had previously been playing whole note chords there.) In any case, I will make sure I am prepared to play whatever my conductor asks of me.

Thank you all for your time, I really appreciate it. I hope you have a good holiday season.

[AllanAllen]

Don't be so hard on yourself. You're making an effort now, if the conductor gives you grief for asking questions that's just poor leadership. Don't let it get you down, just remember to be better if you're ever in that position. It takes courage to ask questions, you have to let someone else know you are vulnerable.

[Christian Miller]

I think that very often they do not, because they do not know the instrument, the guitar part is often an after-thought in a big band arrangement, "Oh, that's right, there's a guitar player in the band, I'll have to write something for them, dammit!"

Quite


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[garybaldy]

Thank you all for the helpful replies! This is my first time posting on the forum and I did not expect so many detailed responses so soon!

I now have a much better idea on how to interpret these sections of music. I agree that the diamond-shaped noteheads must be for rhythm. As for the smaller, round notes, I will probably arpeggiate the ones in the first example and ignore the ones in the second, as I have checked and they are being played by another instrument. Also, I have listened to tracks that my conductor has provided. I couldn't pick out exactly what the guitar was doing, but I do know what vibe to go for and what comping will be appropriate.

It is also VERY TRUE that I should ask my conductor how to play it. In fact, I should've asked her weeks ago and the only reason I am posting here is because I am stupid and irresponsible . I might ask after the break, but we start dress rehearsals on the Tuesday so... I don't think she would be very pleased with my question . (I HAVE learned my music properly, I was only confused with these sections and had previously been playing whole note chords there.) In any case, I will make sure I am prepared to play whatever my conductor asks of me.

Thank you all for your time, I really appreciate it. I hope you have a good holiday season.

The suspense is still killing us all!! What piece of music is it from?

[rpjazzguitar]

Barely an afterthought.

Often, the guitarist gets the piano chart with the word Piano crossed out in pencil and Guitar written in.

If you could play that chart perfectly, how helpful would it be, considering the piano is playing the same thing?

So, you have to figure out something else to play. And, often enough, it may be on a song you've never heard and a chart you've never seen. Every chorus may be different and the next time the band plays it may be never.

If you get a real guitar chart, it's fairly likely that you're going to be doubling horn lines or, occasionally, reading something nobody else is playing. If it's the situation where you've never seen the chart before, your reading skills have to be up there with the horn players. But, in 4th grade they were reading ensemble music in afterschool band, while guitar players were goofing off.

If there's a way to learn how to do this beyond getting your posterior repeatedly bruised, please chime in.