Comping for yourself

[Tal_175]

In the jazz style, I think it boils down to three techniques. These are the technique's that I use and I've heard used very commonly by other jazz guitarists.
- Stabs chords between lines.
- Put chords below some of the notes or phrases like a chord-solo. Note this technique is subtly different from the first one as chords now harmonize some of the lines as oppose to alternate with them.
- Hold and sustain some of the notes of a grip and use the free fingers to play phrases while the chord tones are ringing.

Of course another technique is to play two or three voices contrapuntally, usually a bass-line and a melody line. But this technique is used more in chord-melody arrangements or in the classical fingerstyle, not so much in trio's and duos or inside solos. At least, I haven't heard anyone do it in any regularity in this context.

Please discuss if you have encountered or discovered other techniques/devices.

I'm also curious about one thing regarding the chord stab technique. In some bars, you just have lines. In some bars you just have moving chord voices. But in the bars where both lines and chords occur, I find that I like putting the chord before the line. If I put a chord after a line then I'd like that to be the anticipation of the next chord. If I put the chord-in-the-moment after a line, say on beat 3 or 4, the harmony starts to feel more ambiguous or stagnated. Have you given much thought to this? What are your thoughts?

[AllanAllen]

Stab chords between lines is emulating a swing bands horn section comping. It's either on the 1 establishing the key center of the phrase or around the 4 moving the key center to the next place.

That's generally how I think of it anyway.

[AaronMColeman]

To your last point about putting the "stab" before the line. In general I think you're right...I'm not a great comper but I listen to a lot of piano comping that is lovely. However, I've been working on Stompin at the Savoy and really like letting the stab come after the main melody line and I like it better that way.

Conceptually I can see both ways working. A stab before the line lays down a nice bed for the line to sit in, a stab after the line pulls the tune forward. Guitarists are sorta in no man's land, we aren't the piano and we aren't the horn section. But we can definitely comp either style.

[Tal_175]

To your last point about putting the "stab" before the line. In general I think you're right...I'm not a great comper but I listen to a lot of piano comping that is lovely. However, I've been working on Stompin at the Savoy and really like letting the stab come after the main melody line and I like it better that way.

Conceptually I can see both ways working. A stab before the line lays down a nice bed for the line to sit in, a stab after the line pulls the tune forward. Guitarists are sorta in no man's land, we aren't the piano and we aren't the horn section. But we can definitely comp either style.

The typical way Stomping at the Savoy played with stabs is: V-I stabbed (Ab7-DbMaj) then the Db melody in the next bar. So the Db stab is not after the line but anticipates the melody bar. This is also one of the ways I like using chord stabs.

This type of anticipated stabs pull the line forward, IMO. As opposed to putting the stab after the line. Is that what you mean?

[AaronMColeman]

Probably...when people explain to me what I was trying to say musically, 90% of the time they say it better than I do. Thank you, much better analysis.

[Tal_175]

This style of playing suits duo and trio format really well I think. I was rehearsing with a bass player a few years ago before the pandemic hit towards potentially doing some cafe/small restaurant gigs. I noticed without integrating some chordal textures to my solos, strict contrapuntal bass and guitar combo starts to sound a bit thin.
Self comping is also a great way to work on tunes.

[nakim55]

Lenny Breau could comp chords while soloing at the same time, Tory Slusher takes it to the extreme.

[michaelbartlett]

Lenny Breau could comp chords while soloing at the same time, Tory Slusher takes it to the extreme.

Lenny was such a beautiful player. Ed Bickert was also a master at this. His approach always sounded more pianoistic to me than most guitarists. If Bill Evans played guitar, I could imagine him sounding like Ed.

[pamosmusic]

Stab chords between lines is emulating a swing bands horn section comping. It's either on the 1 establishing the key center of the phrase or around the 4 moving the key center to the next place.

That's generally how I think of it anyway.

Not necessarily sure about this. Ed Bickert is kind of my Ur Example of this thing. He’s all over the place with it. As would be horn pads. Having a kind of set place for the pads kind of puts artificial limits on the phrases too.

[mr. beaumont]

Not necessarily sure about this. Ed Bickert is kind of my Ur Example of this thing. He’s all over the place with it. As would be horn pads. Having a kind of set place for the pads kind of puts artificial limits on the phrases too.

Interesting of course, because Ed taught himself comping by lifting stuff from big band arrangements.

[pamosmusic]

Ah! Didn’t know that. Makes sense though. He’s incredible.

[Tal_175]

Chord punctuations are great in trio contexts. But I don't like a lot of it in actual solo guitar (chord-melody) contexts if the chord to single note ratio is very skewed..

I'm gonna get into trouble for saying this but I'm one of the few jazz guitarists who don't like Joe Pass Virtuoso albums for that reason. Too many unaccompanied, fast single lines which makes the texture a bit too thin for me. I can enjoy listening to single line, unaccompanied flute or horns because their timbre is fat and rich. But the richness of solo guitar comes from the use of harmonic or contrapuntal textures IMO. Guitar going dingly-dingly for eight bars at a time gets fatiguing fast.

That's just my opinion as a listener. As a player, I enjoy playing unaccompanied solo single lines for several choruses, no problem

[pamosmusic]

Interesting of course, because Ed taught himself comping by lifting stuff from big band arrangements.

I may or may not have just started copying down horn background rhythms from a big band record … will report back.

Listening and also thinking about Ed Bickert … this makes so much sense because I think the thing that sticks out most about his playing is the variation between long and short. His chords sound so lush because he lets the ring so comfortably. I find that when I’m playing cool rhythms, I tend to play the super short. It’s way harder than it should be to leave those chords long and still play interesting rhythms.

incidentally like horn backgrounds do in a big band.

it all makes sense now

[gvurrdon]

- Stabs chords between lines.

This is a technique that interests me as it's something I think I have a hope of managing to pull off eventually.
I wonder if anyone can recommend any exercises which might assist; normally I find it difficult to practice the switch back and forth between chords and single note lines and make it seem fluid.
One issue might be that I am only able to play effectively with a plectrum and don't have any particular desire to learn fingerstyle (or hybrid), and books don't seem to cover that much.
Perhaps lessons may assist.

[AllanAllen]

Chitlins Con Carne, Dig Dis, Comin Home Baby. Three blues heads you can comp for yourself over. Here's an old video of me (looking exceptionally disheveled LOL) doing Chitlins as this exercise.

[Tal_175]

This is a technique that interests me as it's something I think I have a hope of managing to pull off eventually.
I wonder if anyone can recommend any exercises which might assist; normally I find it difficult to practice the switch back and forth between chords and single note lines and make it seem fluid.
One issue might be that I am only able to play effectively with a plectrum and don't have any particular desire to learn fingerstyle (or hybrid), and books don't seem to cover that much.
Perhaps lessons may assist.

Luckily chord punches is probably the most plectrum friendly of all self comping approaches. You don't need to use fingerstyle at all (although you could). As Allan said, blues is a good starting point. You can start with working on stabbing chords on different parts of the beat. If you are having trouble with switching between chords and single lines, you can use partial chords in the beginning. Make sure the voices include the guide tones so you can hear the harmony in the comping. There are so many videos demonstrating self comping in the context of blues, you shouldn't have trouble finding examples (aside from Allan's).
Here is one with notation:

[pamosmusic]

Make sure the voices include the guide tones so you can hear the harmony in the comping.

or even just the guide tones. I love those little dudes so I do that a lot. Super easy to play. The diads themselves are open and kind of dull so they don’t take away from the solo. And they outline the harmony.

Pianists will often just punch a third and seventh in the left hand while the right hand solos.

Can be useful to start with rooted shells though — more stuff to play but can help to visualize the guide tones before you drop the root

[pauln]

I'm in a trio where the guitar "wears many hats" musically; the result is that the mechanical distinction of comping, chord melody, and soloing are pretty diffuse and overlap each other.

When comping, I do use stab chords, but also something similar that may be in the "unmentioned technique" category. I kind of divide the chords into primary chords (main progression chords) and secondary chords (chord sequences, passing chords, and light stabs) distinguished by firmness.

The secondary chords are sounded as soft interstitial accents... accents not in the sense of level or attention, but as providing subtle rhythmic and harmonic support. In chord melody, they also inhabit my style of that, and in soloing as well. Anyone familiar with Kenny Burrell knows one of the best examples of this sound - firm solo lines with soft almost ghost-chords mixed in between as passing chords pointing harmonically and rhythmically in support of the forward movement of the solo lines. It's a nice way to manage navigating the main chords, and additional chords, and maintaining nice line phrasing; all the elements work toward this together.

[gvurrdon]

L If you are having trouble with switching between chords and single lines, you can use partial chords in the beginning.

The problem appears to be less the fingering of the chords (I've been working on rootless grips on the top four strings, which I find relatively easy to handle) but in making it flow naturally without getting into playing too many chords or single notes in succession. I try to throw in guide tone double stops from time to time but this needs work.
With luck regular practice as suggested in the videos will get me there eventually. But, opportunities to play in public are very limited as I'm mostly needed on double bass.

Kenny Burrell knows one of the best examples of this sound...

Definitely. I very much like what he does.

[pamosmusic]

The problem appears to be less the fingering of the chords (I've been working on rootless grips on the top four strings, which I find relatively easy to handle) but in making it flow naturally without getting into playing too many chords or single notes in succession. I try to throw in guide tone double stops from time to time but this needs work.
With luck regular practice as suggested in the videos will get me there eventually. But, opportunities to play in public are very limited as I'm mostly needed on double bass.



Definitely. I very much like what he does.

I think there are maybe two parts of this. The first is that seamless integration of the chords with the lines and that’s a really higher order skill that takes a ton of work and you have guys like Kenny Burrell or Wes who do this in a super guitaristic way and Ed Bickert who’s a little looser and more pianistic but in both cases, virtuoso kind of skills at work.

So exercises and all this stuff.

What Tal (I think) and Allan and I were mentioning is just more of self accompanying … just punctuation between lines. And even listening to one of the aforementioned guys who does the chord thing so well … you’ll also notice that they just don’t sweat the chords too much. There are long stretches where there are no chords. So try this but also just don’t try to force chords where there don’t need to be chords.

Try a blues and for every phrase, play two measures and chord for two measures. Try three and one. Try one and three. Choose a simple rhythm for the empty measures — Charleston or something like that. They’ll feel awkward for different reasons but after a while they’ll feel more natural. It’s just sort of forcing those two parts of your musicianship to work together.

[equenda]

I'm working on an example for my next video. The example is based on the "Tune - Up" harmonic progression. I play a single note line for 4 bars and comping chords for another 4 bars.
Although this way of playing may seem simple......being able to ALWAYS obtain a good swing is not easy.
Even more difficult is to write on the staff what is played on the guitar.

I hope that by continuing to do this type of exercise everything will become easier.
However alternating 4 measures of single notes and 4 of chords, interrupts the flow of the improvisation, perhaps it would be better to play single note lines for 6 or 8 measures.... but this depends a lot on the harmonic progression of the song. I hope to publish the video with the example in February.

Ettore

[JazzPadd]

Recently I’ve been working on “Watermelon Man” when this thread popped up, and realized it’s an example of self-comping in the context of playing a groove tune. Lots of space in the A section, during which horns hold notes, but for guitar there’s opportunities for inserting chord fragments. The B section is built around breaks within the theme, sort of like a call and response.

So for playing it in a trio setting there are three aspects to self comping, keeping the groove going when there’s no theme, punctuating the theme when there are long held notes, and then the call and response bit.

For now I’m trying to get those three aspects working together seamlessly for a single guitar. Dynamics are proving useful here to differentiate the parts.

Doing ad-lib is more challenging, especially when locking into the groove with bass and drums, as it comes off as variations on the theme. Maybe not a bad thing.

I’ll bring it to a jam session this week. If I get there early, can do it as a trio, then later after horns and piano show up, lay out more and feel a different take on that.

Jim Hall’s approach to comping with Art Farmer has helped. He used tritones on 5 and 4, muting 3 and then upper extensions on 2 and 1. For my “Watermelon Man” fun, since it’s all dominant chords, that works well so far. Using those split voicings is also a useful workout for practicing finger accuracy in mixing chordal grips, lines and double stops in the context of a groove tune.

[Tal_175]

However alternating 4 measures of single notes and 4 of chords, interrupts the flow of the improvisation, perhaps it would be better to play single note lines for 6 or 8 measures.... .

Alternating shorter blocks (4 bars or less) encourage more riff-y or call/response type melodies. It's also a good way of working on arpeggios, scales etc. I think.

[pamosmusic]

Yeah I think interrupting the flow is fine. I feel like that would be sort of the point … since it’s practice, the idea isn’t to sound good but to force yourself into a frame where you don’t normally play. So if you play lots of single notes without a lot of chords, then alternating fairly frequently is going to start forcing you to play phrases or link phrases together in ways that they stay intact across the barline.

Short version: it’s practicing so I’d rather interrupt my usual than sound good.

[AllanAllen]

I agree with Peter, if you come across something tricky for you that is extremely common (trading fours). Work on making it easy, if you're at a gig and call out "let's trade sixes"... it's not going to be smooth.