A month of Rhythm Guitar

**grahambop** · 01-31-2023, 08:03 PM

You could also play my exercise without the root, i.e. just play the 2 upper notes (on strings 4 and 3), this would be a bit more like Freddie Green I guess. Probably would sound better played along to a suitable bass backing track.

**grahambop** · 02-01-2023, 12:59 PM

I've written out some examples in Musescore of the sixth-diminished chord scales I used in my ATTYA exercise, thought it might be useful in understanding how I derived them. I've included minor 6/dim here for completeness, although I'm not sure I ended up using that one. These cover Ab6 (or Fm7), F7 and Fm6, so you would need to transpose them up or down as required for other keys.

**Christian Miller** · 02-02-2023, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by grahambop

I've written out some examples in Musescore of the sixth-diminished chord scales I used in my ATTYA exercise, thought it might be useful in understanding how I derived them. I've included minor 6/dim here for completeness, although I'm not sure I ended up using that one. These cover Ab6 (or Fm7), F7 and Fm6, so you would need to transpose them up or down as required for other keys.

Thats basically what I’ve done since 2010. Those are my money chords. Unfortunately I’ve not been able to patent them. So I’ll nick that and use it with my students. Cheers!

incomplete voicings are big and clever btw. Don’t fear them.

You also want the ‘Monk moves’ to join up the round the houses dominant progressions,

3 x 3 4 x x
5 x 4 5 x x
6 x 5 6 x x
7 x 5 7 x x
8 x 8 9 x x
etc

definitely no patenting those though because everyone uses them

**grahambop** · 02-02-2023, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Christian Miller

Thats basically what I’ve done since 2010. Those are my money chords. Unfortunately I’ve not been able to patent them. So I’ll nick that and use it with my students. Cheers!

no problem, I got them from Barry Harris by way of Alan Kingstone!

Also I was interested to try doing notation+tab+chord grids in Musescore, took a bit of googling but got there in the end.

**Webby** · 03-26-2023, 08:22 AM

I didn't want to start a new thread just for that, but I just stumbled across this record by Bobby Darin, and I think it's a perfect example of what big band rhythm guitar should sound like:

Compared to most other records the guitar sits quite prominently in the mix (which I dig).
I couldn't find out who played guitar on that track, but in my book that's how you do it!

Paul

**mr. beaumont** · 03-26-2023, 11:13 AM

By the way, I still plan on doing this, life just threw a few more curveballs...out of town with a nylon string right now...

**RLetson** · 03-26-2023, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Webby

I didn't want to start a new thread just for that, but I just stumbled across this record by Bobby Darin, and I think it's a perfect example of what big band rhythm guitar should sound like [. . .] I couldn't find out who played guitar on that track, but in my book that's how you do it!

I dug around for quite a while and couldn't find a personnel list--that track seems to have been unreleased until that Ultra-Lounge compilation. (The CD liner notes might have some information on the session.) The discogs.com listing for a different compilation has Billy May as the arranger/conductor.

In any case, the chunking style reminds me of Steve Jordan or Bucky Pizzarelli.

**Victor Saumarez** · 03-26-2023, 01:30 PM

Love it. I wish I could get that sound. What do you think creates that distinctive acoustic separation of sound. The guitar, the strings? If an amp or mic is used, how is that possible?

**RLetson** · 03-26-2023, 01:42 PM

Since I've tried a number of acoustic archtop/string combinations* without consistently getting that chunk, I'd say it's the player's hands. The guitar helps, but it doesn't talk all by itself.

* FWIW, I've gotten closest with my 1946 Epi Broadway and a medium phosphor bronze set, but it still seems to depend on the right hand.

**Victor Saumarez** · 03-26-2023, 02:06 PM

John Pizzarelli uses this sound.

In this clip you hear him start with fat full single notes. He then goes into his chunk, interspersed with full chord rhythm attacks. So, I think you are right. It has something to do with the right hand. It sounds like he might be dampening the strings with the flesh of his right hand. I'll ask him.

**Webby** · 03-26-2023, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Victor Saumarez

Love it. I wish I could get that sound. What do you think creates that distinctive acoustic separation of sound. The guitar, the strings? If an amp or mic is used, how is that possible?

I usually use an acoustic Archtop with a carved top, strung up with heavy gauge Bronze strings. A heavy pick also helps.

**grahambop** · 03-26-2023, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by RLetson

I dug around for quite a while and couldn't find a personnel list--that track seems to have been unreleased until that Ultra-Lounge compilation. (The CD liner notes might have some information on the session.) The discogs.com listing for a different compilation has Billy May as the arranger/conductor.

In any case, the chunking style reminds me of Steve Jordan or Bucky Pizzarelli.

Did a bit of digging on this just out of curiosity. From info on the Bobby Darin site and elsewhere, it looks as if this track was recorded July 1962, which is also when his first Capitol LP (Oh Look At Me Now) was recorded. So maybe it didn’t make it onto that album (it’s not listed as one of the tracks). The album was arranged by Billy May. I couldn’t find any personnel for the album anywhere (I even found a copy of the original sleeve notes - no personnel shown though!).

One possible candidate could be Al Hendrickson, he seems to have been the regular guitarist on quite a lot of Billy May recordings around that time.

**pcjazz** · 03-26-2023, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Webby

I usually use an acoustic Archtop with a carved top, strung up with heavy gauge Bronze strings. A heavy pick also helps.

Yet Bucky taught me to use a light or even a very light pick on the acoustic archtop with heavy strings. Gypsy jazzers use a heavy pick, but on lightly built guitars with light strings.

**Webby** · 03-26-2023, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by pcjazz

Yet Bucky taught me to use a light or even a very light pick on the acoustic archtop with heavy strings. Gypsy jazzers use a heavy pick, but on lightly built guitars with light strings.

Interesting!
I guess i should have added, that i was only giving my own humble opinion.
Might have to try some lighter picks again!
I did develop that preference for thicker picks during several years of unplugged big band work. I always felt like I was losing too much energy (=Volume) with a thinner pick.

Paul

**pcjazz** · 03-26-2023, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Webby

Interesting!
I guess i should have added, that i was only giving my own humble opinion.
Might have to try some lighter picks again!
I did develop that preference for thicker picks during several years of unplugged big band work. I always felt like I was losing too much energy (=Volume) with a thinner pick.

Paul

Bear in mind that what you hear from behind the archtop is very different from what listeners a yard or more in front will hear. (You can try the Charlie Christian trick of playing into a corner to hear this.). When I went to my lesson with Bucky I was playing quite aggressively with a heavy pick. He showed me that this caused the chords to “splash” as he put it. Playing more lightly with a lighter pick produces a more precise and controlled rhythm. For big band rhythm work I currently use a 1940s Stromberg strung with 12-52 acoustic strings and either a yellow Dunlop Tortex or extra-light Fender teardrop. I have a monkey-on-a-stick pickup on the guitar, but at very low volume just to reinforce the acoustic sound for swing rhythm. I turn it up for solos and for finger-picked Latin rhythms. The amp reinforcement is necessary in the presence of synthetic drum heads, big cymbals and amplified bass.

**Victor Saumarez** · 03-27-2023, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by pcjazz

Bear in mind that what you hear from behind the archtop is very different from what listeners a yard or more in front will hear. (You can try the Charlie Christian trick of playing into a corner to hear this.). When I went to my lesson with Bucky I was playing quite aggressively with a heavy pick. He showed me that this caused the chords to “splash” as he put it. Playing more lightly with a lighter pick produces a more precise and controlled rhythm. For big band rhythm work I currently use a 1940s Stromberg strung with 12-52 acoustic strings and either a yellow Dunlop Tortex or extra-light Fender teardrop. I have a monkey-on-a-stick pickup on the guitar, but at very low volume just to reinforce the acoustic sound for swing rhythm. I turn it up for solos and for finger-picked Latin rhythms. The amp reinforcement is necessary in the presence of synthetic drum heads, big cymbals and amplified bass.

Yes, that all makes a lot of sense. I'm guessing the action probably needs to be on the high side to help reduce the 'splash'. The only drawback with a light pick, as I see it, is when you need attack for single note stuff. In the JP vid above you see he switches masterfully between a thin chunk to a full fat sound.

**Christian Miller** · 03-27-2023, 11:23 AM

Never tried a thin pick on an Archie, but if Bucky says so, I'll have to give it a try!

**Christian Miller** · 03-27-2023, 02:39 PM

Ok so I got my 0.75 acoustic strummer pick and sat in the naughty corner and… I don’t think it’s as loud as the 2mm I normally use, but it has a lovely authentic quality for both rhythm and chord melody. Very Carl Kress/Dick McDonough. Yum. Definitely bringing one on my next trad gig as they have in fact invented amplifiers.