Major Chords with b5 and b9

[christianm77]

I like Randy Vincent’s the guitarist’s introduction to jazz. Very well thought out book. Zero BS.

I talk a little bit about why here;

[jsaras]

Hijaz Kar

C Db E F G Ab B

cool scale, no?

Two hijaz tetrachorda stuck together

There's ALWAYS a scale..

That scale has three chromatic tones, so it’s not going to work for building harmonies.


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[bako]

That scale has three chromatic tones, so it’s not going to work for building harmonies.

True, the common scales don't contain 3 consecutive half steps but
all scales have notes, notes form intervals, intervals
are the building blocks of chords.

C Db E F G Ab B

CEGB ......... Cma7
DbFAbC ..... Dbma7
EGBDb ....... Em6
FAbCE ........ FmMa7
GBDbF ....... G7b5
AbCEG ....... Abma7+
BDbFAb ...... Db7

That said, the culture that this scale derives from is primarily focused on the melodic content.

[wolflen]

True, the common scales don't contain 3 consecutive half steps but
all scales have notes, notes form intervals, intervals
are the building blocks of chords.

C Db E F G Ab B

CEGB ......... Cma7
DbFAbC ..... Dbma7
EGBDb ....... Em6
FAbCE ........ FmMa7
GBDbF ....... G7b5
AbCEG ....... Abma7+
BDbFAb ...... Db7

That said, the culture that this scale derives from is primarily focused on the melodic content.

and more....
Emi6=A9=C#mi7b5=Eb7b9#5

C E G# =C aug..Eaug Abaug

realizing that "chords" can be constructed with any scale...they may NOT be harmonized..practical or sound very good (can be in context..)..but they are still chords..
and melodic possibilities are there for the taking..as with all "scales"

[christianm77]

That scale has three chromatic tones, so it’s not going to work for building harmonies.


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Why not? What's wrong with three consecutive semitones?

[jsaras]

Why not? What's wrong with three consecutive semitones?

Write a ninth chord on the 1 chord. The -9 with the major 7 gives you three chromatics. It’s a sure path to unemployment. A -9 interval works fine with a -7 in the structure.

Also when you get to the vii chord, the 9th is a repeat of the root.


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[wolflen]

Write a ninth chord on the 1 chord. The -9 with the major 7 gives you three chromatics. It’s a sure path to unemployment. A -9 interval works fine with a -7 in the structure.

Also when you get to the vii chord, the 9th is a repeat of the root.


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unemployment...ahhh..not so fast..in fact there is enough harmonic material in this scale to create some interesting progressions...and melodic lines..
hell..you might even get a two week gig at the local dive ...(I still love those dark smoky places !)

lets add some more harmonic possibilities from the Bako reply..

CMA7 = Eb13b9#5=(no rt) = AbMa7#5#9

DbMA7=E13b9#5=AMA7#5#9

G7b5=Db7b5

so now we have several more harmonic possible harmonic directions..using just the notes from the scale...

Im sure Bako could create a nice progression from all this

and yes I realize the non functional nature of the "harmonized" structure...but using what is available..in a non functional way..there are some possibilities

Scott Henderson and Ben Monder would have fun with this kind of stuff

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

[christianm77]

Write a ninth chord on the 1 chord. The -9 with the major 7 gives you three chromatics. It’s a sure path to unemployment. A -9 interval works fine with a -7 in the structure.

Also when you get to the vii chord, the 9th is a repeat of the root.


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Some people think in a very closed way and have a very fixed aesthetic. Which is fine, most of the work out there is reproducing this or that thing that's familiarly to people. But that's not a reason not to explore a sound.

OTOH unemployment as a musician is less of a concern when no one has any gigs.

[jsaras]

Some people think in a very closed way and have a very fixed aesthetic. Which is fine, most of the work out there is reproducing this or that thing that's familiarly to people. But that's not a reason not to explore a sound.

OTOH unemployment as a musician is less of a concern when no one has any gigs.

One can use any collection of intervals to form vertical structures, but that does not render those horizontal intervals a suitable scale upon which to build progressions. If you have the compositional technique, you can use all 12 notes vertically and not have any dissonances. That said, the issue with a vertical structure that has a -9 and a natural 7 is that it breaks the overtone series. A -3 and a -9 also break the overtone series. But if you want to prove me wrong, write a progression with those structures and see what it produces.


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[christianm77]

Well it would not be a traditional tonal progression.

Overtone sequence - important for voicings, not as important for harmonic progressions as its sometimes held up to be.