Most useful 4 note voicings 1-10

[Jonzo]

I am working on a program to teach 4 note voicings. I would like to teach them in order of usefulness. It seems like a simple thing, but I can't find such a list anywhere.

So, if you were going to teach voicings in order of usefulness, what order would they be in? It would be helpful if everyone used a M7 as an example, and made their list look like this:

XX7351
1X735X
Etc...

I know that in some ways this is an impossible question, but just think in terms of your actual playing. Which voicing do you use most, second, third...?

I know there are choices other than 4 note voicings--rootless, shells, and such--but those are for a different project.

If you have a shorter list, that's fine too

Thanks for your help!

[Pete Sklaroff]

Hi Jonzo,

To the best of my knowledge there are fifteen types of 'seventh/sixth' chord (or chords which employ 4 separate pitches) and I would probably use Maj7, Dom7, Min7, Min7b5 first and then add the others, which are for the most part variations on these anyway.

Hope this helps anyway,

Thanks

Pete

[Jonzo]

Hmmm, I guess I didn't make myself clear.

I am looking for variations of the M7 chord that are the most useful. My diagrams are showing where the chord tones fall on each string. So

XX7351

means the root is on the first string, the 5 is on the second string, the 3 is on the third string the 7 is on the 4th string;

1X735X

Means the root is on the 6th string, the 7 is on the 4th string, the 3 is on the 3rd string and the 5 is on the second.

I other words, I don't have 7 fingers; I am showing the tone positions for a closed M7.

I can extrapolate the minors, dominant 7s, 6ths and any other chord voicing by raising or lowering the tones in the M7.

So which are the most useful voicings for the closed M7?

[AlsoRan]

This was one of the reasons that I got an instructor. I wanted to learn the most useful chord forms of a given chord.

In the end, I am starting to think there is no true answer to this question. I think it may depend more on the sub-genre of Jazz you might play the most as well as whether or not you play alone or with a trio, combo, big band, etc...

I would love to read what the other more experienced players think about this subject.

[RyanM]

Might as well just learn each of the four inversions... Drop-2 top four strings and middle 4, drop three on string set 6432... Thry can all be manipulated to create whatever extensions/alterations/shells necessary.

[Jonzo]

Okay. So I have decided to learn all of them. What order?

[virtuoso]

More play,less maths.

[JakeAcci]

Might as well just learn each of the four inversions... Drop-2 top four strings and middle 4, drop three on string set 6432... Thry can all be manipulated to create whatever extensions/alterations/shells necessary.

I second this suggestion.

Learn them in order of inversion - root positon, then first inversion, then second, then third. Do them up the neck from the lowest available to the highest available.

First do drop 3 on strings 6432 then drop 2 on strings 5432 then drop 2 on strings 4321, then drop 2 on strings 6543 (saving that for last because it's the least common in some cases, they can be a little muddy.)

It could then be good to do drop 3 on other string sets, also observe what close inversions are possible.

Then I guess there are also drop2/4 voicings:

R 5 X 3 X 7 and its inversions

and others.

But what is the purpose of the project? Sometimes I find with these projects, so much can get invested in the formulas and problem solving that the musical application can get lost.

[Jonzo]

I appreciate your reply. However, I am not completely clear in my understanding of drop chords. Could you list them as tones of the M7 and the strings they go on?

I understand about all of the work to come up with the formulas. But sometimes the upfront work by one person can make something easier for a lot of people. Sometimes not too. That's the nature of an experiment.

[JakeAcci]

I appreciate your reply. However, I am not completely clear in my understanding of drop chords. Could you list them as tones of the M7 and the strings they go on?

I understand about all of the work to come up with the formulas. But sometimes the upfront work by one person can make something easier for a lot of people. Sometimes not too. That's the nature of an experiment.

Jonzo, please take no offense, but if your intention is to help other guitarists understand voicings, I think you need to get a little more versed yourself to begin with. The "drop" formulas are very common, and easily google-able (or you could search this forum.) It's good to get a decent handle on the list I wrote out above.

The different drop inversions are the most common and basic ways to invert 7th chords on the guitar.

[cosmic gumbo]

The only thing that makes a voicing useful has to do with the context of the chord played before it, and the chord played after it.

[Jonzo]

Jonzo, please take no offense, but if your intention is to help other guitarists understand voicings, I think you need to get a little more versed yourself to begin with. The "drop" formulas are very common, and easily google-able (or you could search this forum.) It's good to get a decent handle on the list I wrote out above.

The different drop inversions are the most common and basic ways to invert 7th chords on the guitar.

I don't take offence, but I am disappointed.

I don't disagree that it is good to get a decent handle on these things, but it is not a requirement of my stated goal.

[brwnhornet59]

Hmmm, I guess I didn't make myself clear.

XX7351

1X735X

I am not completely clear in my understanding of drop chords.

The diagrams you described are drop 2 and drop 3 templates. To get the inversions, list the notes of the chord and build from there. Your diagrams infer root position. 1st inversion has the 3rd in the root, 2nd inversion has the 5th in the root, 3rd inversion has the 7th in the root.

Drop 2 chords always skip a chord tone between the interval being rooted and the next chord tone.

xx1 5 7 3

xx3 7 1 5

xx5 1 3 7

xx7 3 5 1

This list is the order of which a drop 2 chord starting with the root in the bass, through to the 3rd inversion looks like on the upper string set.



Drop 3 chords are rooted off of the 6th and 5th strings and always skip a string between the root note and the next note being fretted.

Drop 3 chords always skip two chord tones from the chord tone being rooted and the next tone being voiced. Here is the list in order from root to 3rd inversion, rooted off of the 6th string.

1x735x

3x157x

5x371x

7x513x

Take it from there...

To answer your question, I find the most useful forms to be the ones closest to where I am positioned at that moment, and fits my use at the time. Chord forms and their inversions are only as useful as ones awareness and familiarity of them and their proximity, IMHO. In other words they are all just as useful at one time or another.

[rill]

Once you get the voicings under your fingers, get Goodrick's Almanac of Guitar Voiceleading. There's enough in there to practice for several lifetimes. The triad voiceleading pages alone are worth the price.

[RyanM]

Here's a tip that makes it a lot easier:

First, learn the 4 inversions of the 'drop-2' voicings on the top four strings.

Then all you have to do, is take each of those voicings and replace the note on the high-e string with the same note on the low E string. That gives you the drop-3 inversions

[Jonzo]

That sounds like a good idea. Thanks.

[mr. beaumont]

Root position first, string sets 6432, 5432, and 4321.

I've met two guitar players in the last month who could play drop 2 inversions of a Cmaj7 all over the neck but couldn't comp through "All of Me" using root position chords. But that's what learning the guitar on the internet does to you.

[NSJ]

Yep. +1. First set of chords I was taught were the 6432 (drop 3) and 5432 (drop 2) with the root position, in all keys (i.e., 1-7-3-5 and 1-5-7-3 for M7; then m7/7/half-dim/dim versions of each).

[JohnRoss]

Players who are not serious are fair game to that critique...

What's so special about jazz? Lots of people who don't particularly care for classical music study it for their own reasons, and no-one raises an eyebrow. More generally, it's totally positive to undertake studies which don't reflect your tastes, it broadens the mind and makes you a better person. If a young person who wanted to be a novelist decided to study English Lit, you wouldn't suck in your teeth because he said he didn't much like Shakespeare or Jane Austen or Old English sagas, you'd just assume that the experience would make him a bigger person.

(And why is everyone obsessed with Stevie Ray Vaughan lately? It's terribly parochial of you Yanks, he's almost unknown on this side of the Atlantic.)

[AlsoRan]

What's so special about jazz? Lots of people who don't particularly care for classical music study it for their own reasons, and no-one raises an eyebrow. More generally, it's totally positive to undertake studies which don't reflect your tastes, it broadens the mind and makes you a better person., you'd just assume that the experience would make him a bigger person.

And why is everyone obsessed with Stevie Ray Vaughan lately? It's terribly parochial of you Yanks, he's almost unknown on this side of the Atlantic.

As an illustration of this point, before I got sucked into Jazz, I bought a book on country music to broaden my fingerstyle guitar skills as well as my speed. I don't particularly like country music, even though I live in Texas. I just really wanted to learn to "chicken-pick!"


As for Steve, it's a "Blues" thing, I believe. In the estimation of many, he was one of the few modern-day Blues guitar heroes that was well-known. (You may have started a new debate, John).

[ColinO]

SRV was raised by me not because I am a "Yank" (I am not an American by the way - how parochial of you to assume that anyone who likes someone who you do not is a Yank) but just as and example to make a broader point.

Cheers.

PS - Stevie is a monster player and pity for you that you are not familiar with hem.

[JohnRoss]

SRV was raised by me not because I am a "Yank" (I am not an American by the way - how parochial of you to assume that anyone who likes someone who you do not is a Yank)

Valid point and a nice riposte, but I think the flurry of SRV references we have seen recently must be due, mostly, to Americans. I could, of course and as always (in fact, more often than not), be wrong.

Stevie is a monster player and pity for you that you are not familiar with hem.

I'm sure you're right, I'm not questioning his ability or worth, I'm questioning his importance, especially the importance being attributed to him here, in the context of this forum.

[jovialspoon]

This was one of the reasons that I got an instructor. I wanted to learn the most useful chord forms of a given chord.

In the end, I am starting to think there is no true answer to this question. I think it may depend more on the sub-genre of Jazz you might play the most as well as whether or not you play alone or with a trio, combo, big band, etc...

I would love to read what the other more experienced players think about this subject.

AlsoRan, you are 100% correct. In the matter of which chord voicings are most useful, context is everything. To use “All of Me” as an example, I’ve played this in a big band, small group and duo-with-vocalist setting, and even when it’s in the same key each time, I still find different voicings work better than others in each setting. In fact, when accompanying a soloist, I find I use different voicings, depending on what the instrument is and how it’s being played. I sometimes play this tune with a very powerful trombonist who nearly knocks down the walls with the strength of his solos. Other times it’s someone who plays a soprano sax quite gently. Each situation calls for a different accompaniment.

So my philosophy is simply to learn as many voicings for as many chords as is humanly possible, and then actively listen to what else is happening in the song and make your best choice depending on context. I liken this to painting and selecting colors. There’s no formula as to precisely when one should use more green or less red, it all depends on what else is going on and the mood/effect you want to create. Same for music.

[AlsoRan]

Point taken. Thanks for the input, jovial one!

[brwnhornet59]

What's so special about jazz?

Not a ding dang thing...Any player that takes the genre seriously, whatever genre that happens to be, does not do so because they do not like it.

I have no idea about Stevie...Never owned an album he did...

I know a lot of guys who would like to know how to play jazz guitar - probably for a lot of reasons including, it is an interesting study, you can learn to be a better player/musician, you can use the knowledge you gain in other genre's, the players are better, and on and on. But that doesn't mean they actually like listening to the music. In fact I would bet more players on this forum have SRV in their CD players than Wes. That may be an overstatement but I'm just saying that might be part of the reason for Mr. B's observation about the guy who can play a lot of drop 2s but not All of Me.

Also, I recognize that my statement may have been too broad (although I didn't say anything like what you suggested I said) so I am sorry if I offended anyone. I actually love listening to jazz but recognize that there are those who do not.

Now that you are giving more information your statement takes on different meaning, but of course it is easy to see how a statement like that could be taken wrong in a jazz forum...As I said, any serious jazz player would not feel that way..I do not know of many dabblers in here, but of course I have not been posting much of late.

What you are describing are dabblers, people who want to try something different for the possibility of enlightenment. Admirable, but not serious jazz players...

No harm no foul...