Comping or Counterpoint

[pcjazz]

Ima try to find a video where someone does what I was talking about, I think Kessel or Hall, maybe Berstein are into that type of comp.

Ed Bickert

[pamosmusic]

Ed Bickert

+1

[pauln]

Hey fellas, sometimes I see players doing some type of comping that not the usual (at least for me) meaning using different inversions, boxes, wes, pass...movements, is more like counterpoint, more like moving voices, sounds bit organ-ish to me, I saw Jack Pearson doind some cool stuff like that on a f blues, wondering me if is there any book that teaches those type of movements, starting from blues turnaround I guess.

Cheers

I think most create their own ways to find the voice movements, or transcribe those of others. Here's one I developed from which lots of different parts may be used individually in different tunes. I think of it as a double turnaround because it descends through two cycles of resolution to the one chord (not counting the lead in chord). Most of it is inside four string chords that may be played very fast.

The idea here is a jazz blues turnaround employing a very lush density of fancy changes where each chord change is a partial resolution, but as one voice resolves another voice sneaks into tension, so the flow of chords is resolving but also procrastinating resolving. You'll hear it.

The lower cycle has some extra quick change chords, but your ear will identify which ones need to be half duration for the series flow to fit (or just left out to keep a regular change pace). They are marked with " * ".

I would suggest starting out by learning to play it through until it's pretty fast and smooth - so you can do the whole thing with little thinking or effort. Then play it through listening for the mechanics of the shifting tension/resolution voices - those will inform you where those particular moves might be tried within the contexts of various blues and jazz blues tunes (and not just turnarounds but other changes, and changes turned into chord series). That's why the chords are identified by the Roman numerals to generalize experimentation with particular tunes.

G jazz blues turnaround

bII pick up chord
(x) (15) (16) (15) (18) (x)
I chord
(x) (14) (14) (14) (15) (x)
VI chord
(x) (12) (13) (12) (15) (x)
ii chord
(x) (11) (11) (11) (12) (x)
V chord
(x) (9) (10) (9) (12) (x)
I chord
(x) (8) (9) (9) (8) (x)
VI chord
(x) (7) (6) (7) (8) (x)
bIII chord *
(6) (x) (6) (5) (5) (x)
ii chord
(5) (x) (5) (5) (5) (x)
bVI chord *
(x) (6) (5) (6) (6) (x)
V chord
(x) (5) (4) (5) (6) (x)
bii chord *
(4) (x) (4) (3) (3) (x)
I chord
(3) (x) (2) (2) (3) (x)

[Basshead]

Thanks fellas, Ed Bickert is cool, that tele jazz sound!

After watching a couple of Ted Greene videos...yeah I either quit lol or start working on some fugues for real

[cmajor9]

Thanks fellas, Ed Bickert is cool, that tele jazz sound!

After watching a couple of Ted Greene videos...yeah I either quit lol or start working on some fugues for real

Don’t despair and don’t quit! Check out Tim Lerch, who besides a lot of tasty playing offers courses in the direction you’re looking in. Search on YouTube for his video Counterpoint Musings and for his Jazz Pathways courses.

[joe2758]

I think you should post examples of what you are going for, because tbh I don't think it's completely clear

[brent.h]

I've been meaning to ask.

A while back, I started a thread called Barry Harris on 2 strings, just sharing how I derived 6th diminished guide tones (to be played on D&G strings) from drop-2 voicings and how I do 'mini-counterpoint' moves while comping.

I have a very bad habit of using technical musical terms that I don't fully/correctly understand (like counterpoint, contrary motion, parallel motion). I'm not even schooled in this. So for those of you who are trained in this sort of thing, does the video below count as counterpoint?

[joe2758]

It makes for great comping that's for sure, so that's the main thing.

I wouldn't call it counterpoint because it doesn't sound like two independent voices. There's a few reasons why it doesn't, but those individual causes isn't what keeps it from sounding like counterpoint

If you called that counterpoint, then 3 note comping the way everyone does it would be called counterpoint, typical 4 note chord comping would be called counterpoint (the number of voices doesn't matter). It's really just harmony

[brent.h]

Ok thanks for clearing that up.