Show tune chord question

[gvurrdon]

Having volunteered to be in the band for an amateur operatic production I am now going through the charts. These aren't particularly easy, but the practice is useful. Below is one which I found somewhat tricky:



For the tempo it makes reference to a previous piece, for which a dotted quarter note equals 138.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to chord voicings? There's some back-and-forth between C and G chords which I'm not sure how to do quickly.
I'm guessing that I can ignore the bass notes after the slash given that there will be a bass player present.

[Mick-7]

Well, it's pretty much all triads, which would be pop music easy if not for all the implied moving lines.

You may want to simplify the chord changes, like say: (from bar 113) - G / C6 / G6 - C (4th beat)/ G6 / G / - etc.

What is the song?

[gvurrdon]

Well, it's pretty much all triads, which would be pop music easy if not for all the implied moving lines. You'll probably want to simplify the chord changes. What is the song?

What I am finding difficult is to move between the various grips I know at a sufficient tempo, so
Had I been asked to play bass then it might have been a bit easier...
This particular piece is to be played for the scene change following

[rpjazzguitar]

Having volunteered to be in the band for an amateur operatic production I am now going through the charts. These aren't particularly easy, but the practice is useful. Below is one which I found somewhat tricky:



For the tempo it makes reference to a previous piece, for which a dotted quarter note equals 138.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to chord voicings? There's some back-and-forth between C and G chords which I'm not sure how to do quickly.
I'm guessing that I can ignore the bass notes after the slash given that there will be a bass player present.

The tempo info is confusing. It seems to say the new 8th note is the same as the old 8th note (I don't see a dot), but why 8ths? Ordinarily, that would be specified in quarters.

You mentioned dotted quarter was 138. If I've got the math straight, that puts the quarter at 138 x 3/2, or about 207. Is it really that fast? Seems unlikely, or, at least, worth double checking.

As far as G and C. I'd play the G as xx543x and the C with a ring finger barre at the 5th fret. It even gets the G as the low note in both chords, although that may not be necessary. The only other way that comes to mind which makes it easy to play fast would be open G xx000x and xx201x or the same thing at the 12th fret.

EDIT: I just heard the track you posted. Sounds in the 138 area, not 207. If it's too fast, you could play the G as G and B (xx54xx) and then the C as xx55xx. So, the strategy there is to play the note they have in common (G) as part of both chords. And, then change the B to a C, which requires very little movement and captures enough of the harmony that nobody is likely to complain.

[Mick-7]

What I am finding difficult is to move between the various grips I know at a sufficient tempo

rpjg just gave you a clue on that, i.e., simple shifts between neighboring triads like the G & C triads he mentioned.

Examine each bar and ask yourself: what is the melody note there and what chord tones do the chords have in common? That will clue you in on how to "dumb down" the chord changes. Forget about jazz chords, we're talking banjo chords here.

[gvurrdon]

Thanks - I'll try those suggested chords.
The previous piece definitely says that I dotted quarter note(*) is 138, and is in 6/8. However, the piece before that has a quarter note equal to 138 and is in 2/4. Apparently, both are sung together at one point so they'll match up with these tempos and time signatures.

(*) I am told off at home if I use American terminology even though I think it is better and arguably more relevant for jazz.

[gvurrdon]

Forget about jazz chords, we're talking banjo chords here.

Funnily enough, the score does mention switching to banjo for some songs.
This is not something I plan to do; I don't own a banjo and don't fancy buying one or learning how to play it.

[rpjazzguitar]

So, you're tapping your foot (maybe metaphorically) at 138 in 2/4.

Then, it goes into 6/8. You tap your foot at the same speed, as if each beat was an 8th note triplet. But it isn't written in 2/4.

What tends to happen in this situation is that you feel the 6/8 as two 8th note triplets, so you keep tapping your foot twice per measure; each tap is half of the 6/8 bar.

Then it returns to the original 2/4. Your foot just keeps tapping at 138.

So, how do you notate all that? Looks to me like at the beginning of the 6/8, you put the metric modulation equation "old dotted quarter = new quarter". And, when it reverts back, you put in the reverse equation.

Writing the equations in 8th notes gives me a headache. The 8th note in 6/8 is a shorter note. There are 6 of them in two taps of your foot instead of 4. So it's not the same 8th note in 6/8 and 2/4.

So, the equation at the start of the excerpt you posted is confusing and maybe missing a dot. If it refers back to an earlier section of 2/4 -- that would need to be a lot clearer and I think it would be fair to call it incorrect notation. But, then again, I haven't seen the whole chart.

[gvurrdon]

Having some trouble posting the images at the moment.
What is indeed happening is as you describe; 138 in 2/4 followed by a second song in 6/8, still tapping twice per measure.
Then, to add to the fun, two groups of singers sing the 2/4 and 6/8 songs against each other.
Finally, the excerpt I posted above is played to finish.
It is all rather confusing, but I am in luck in that the production won't be on stage until May, which should give me sufficient time to learn it.

[rpjazzguitar]

6/8 is usually grouped as two dotted quarters, meaning it's the same as 2/4, sort of.

But, it might well be easier to read it if it's written in 6/8, despite the wrinkle added by the metric modulation. It depends on the way the notes are timed and grouped within each bar.

If it's all suitable for notating as triplets, I'd personally rather read that. I'm prone to screwing up metric modulations (victim of a low budget music education) so they fill me with dread. But, I digress.

[mikeSF]

definitely disregard the bass notes after the slashes and concentrate on finding triads in close proximity to each other to facilitate quick changing. I do pit work too and this is a very typical looking guitar chart. have fun.

[AllanAllen]

Focus on the middle strings, it's okay to drop out for a bar to get the tempo/rhythm. People will be listening to the lyrics anyway.

Here are inversion grips for G and C, play through each, then play G and C in the same spot, then get fun with it, go up the neck, G C G, and back down C G C using all 6.

G major triad
xx543x
xx976x
xx(12)(12)(12)x

C major triad
xx555x
xx(10)76x
xx(14)(12)(13)x

Just for fun, here is A minor too

A minor
xx755x
xx(10)9(10)x
xx(14)(14)(13)x

For the gig/rehearsal grab ones that are easy and run with them. This is a rhythm section gig, just keep they rhythm going and you'll do great.

The inversions get easier with practice, just run through them a few times 5-10 minutes a day.

[gvurrdon]

Thanks, I'll certainly be doing a few minutes each day, except today when I plan to go and listen to the singers as they work on this particular piece.

[AllanAllen]

The way I memorized is cycle of 4ths. I learn technical stuff starting in G then apply it around the cycle.

G
C
F
Bb
Eb
Ab
Db
Gb
B
E
A
D

I don't know why I started with G instead of C, but I did and it's a habit now. In a week or whatever start running the triad inversions through this, G up the neck, C down the neck, F up, Bb down...

Years of fun

[Mick-7]

You can count 6/8 against 2/4 like so - the top staff represents 6/8 (= 3/4 ) and the bottom one is 2/4 (don't think Guitar Pro will allow me to write two different time signatures on a double staff).

[rpjazzguitar]

There are a few rhythmic patterns that are worth practicing so that you'll have them when you need them.

In no particular order, these come to mind.

1. In 3/4, hearing dotted quarters, so you end up superimposing 2 over 3.

2. In 4/4 being able to hear half note triplets, quarter note triplets and eighth note triplets.

3. To hear 6/8 as 2/4 by imagining the 6 8th notes as two sets of 8th note triplets.

If you play in odd meters:

4. Hear Take 5 rhythmic pattern (there are other patterns in 5, but this is the common one in American music).

5. To be able to play groove in 7/4 (check out Airto's Misturada. It can get to the point where 7 feels as good, or better, than 4.

[gvurrdon]

T
5. To be able to play groove in 7/4 (check out Airto's Misturada. It can get to the point where 7 feels as good, or better, than 4.

Thanks - I'll have a listen. As it happens I've been trying to persuade the chaps with whom I normally play to have a go at something in 7/4:

[rpjazzguitar]

Thanks for posting this. That's a cool 7/4 groove.

[gvurrdon]

Last night I was able to have a listen and they're not going quite as quickly as I would have expected, which will help.
But, it turns out that the bass guitarist already engaged is primarily a trombonist and may well be asked to play trombone on some numbers, meaning I'll have to take a bass (probably electric upright) to cover those. I'll find out which ones in show week...

[PMB]

The way I memorized is cycle of 4ths. I learn technical stuff starting in G then apply it around the cycle.

G
C
F
Bb
Eb
Ab
Db
Gb
B
E
A
D

I don't know why I started with G instead of C, but I did and it's a habit now. In a week or whatever start running the triad inversions through this, G up the neck, C down the neck, F up, Bb down...

Years of fun

The guitar is in G in the same way that the piano is in C. The instrument is tuned to a G major pentatonic scale. Also, the most common jazz keys are G, C, F, Bb and Eb so it doesn't hurt to kick off the cycle with those keys.

You might like to try practising triad inversions across the strings as well. This is a much more pianistic way of connecting the forms: