Chords that omit low strings

[LJP]

Hi All, I was talking with a bass player friend who was saying how helpful it is when the guitarist avoids the low E and A strings for clearer mix when comping.

So I wondering if anyone has compiled jazz chords for this purpose? If so I’d love links!

Thanks in advance!

[jazzeroo]

II-V-I Tutor: Introduction

[gvurrdon]

@LJP being a bass player myself I would agree with your friend.
As part of my attempt to be able to play guitar as well I took a lesson with a local pro, who suggested that I do the following exercise:

1. Pick chords such as Gm7 3x333x and move the bottom note up to the top, i.e. xx3333.
2. Move them through each possible inversion, e..g xx5766, xx7766 etc.
3. Modify chords where possible e.g. xx3335 to make a Gm9 or xx2333 for a Gm6.
4. Practice on choosing the nearest next chord of all these inversions when comping.

I am still working on this but have found it easier to remember the chords if I practice them this way than if I look at them in a book.

This reminds me that I did a post about some playing I've been doing where the bassist played in a way that made things a bit muddy. Using a double bass reduces the problem, but if it's a bass guitar then using flatwound strings, plucking with fingers or thumb near the neck, and mostly avoiding upper registers helps.

[pamosmusic]

Rootless shells 3/7 or 7/3 on the D and G strings … color notes on top. Ed Bickert chords.

[Christian Miller]

Hi All, I was talking with a bass player friend who was saying how helpful it is when the guitarist avoids the low E and A strings for clearer mix when comping.

So I wondering if anyone has compiled jazz chords for this purpose? If so I’d love links!

Thanks in advance!

Peter Amos is your man.

A lot of this depends on style. If you go check out Pete Bernstein for example, loads of 6th string. But his sound makes it work and he’s strumming those chords with a transparent sound using an archtop rolled off a little and strumming with a pick.

However I would say many if not most jazz guitarists finger pick chords. In this case playing bass notes on the chords will tend to muddy things up because the volume of the amp will be up and the notes will sustain more. So chords in the midrange work well in most situations. Think Ed Bickert on a Tele.

OTOH if you have a guitarist comping with midrange chords for another guitarist - that can be an issue.

See also - upright piano low in the mix versus a well mic’ed grand and see how the style of jazz pianists have moved from stride and early bop at one end to the very mid range centric playing of modern pianists at the other.

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[AllanAllen]

I got a template from this website and make my own(examples attached). It's a holistic approach, I learn the intervals, chord tone numbers(root, 3rd, 5th....) and note names as opposed to just rote memorization of grips. Then you can do fun stuff like drop the 5 and add a 9 to every 6 chord and get more grips.

[pamosmusic]

Rootless shells 3/7 or 7/3 on the D and G strings … color notes on top. Ed Bickert chords.

Check the first page of this document. The basic voicings are there with the roots on top. The rest of it is a little wild. Stuff I was working on for a particularly student.

These voicings are super easy to play and super flexible but they can be hard to orient yourself around because so often there’s no root. So I end up spending a lot of time practicing the voicings on this first page with the root on top, because if I can orient myself around the root, even when I’m not playing it, then the rest of it is cake.

Play these over ii-V-Is, blueses, tunes you’re working on, etc. The cycles in the rest of the pdf are cool but more useful for really hammering home a particular technique. Cycle of fourths is very useful, but I’d go for tunes instead.

rootless shell voicings diatonic cycles - Score.pdf - Google Drive

[pamosmusic]

Peter Amos is your man.

Golly I’m blushing.

But out of respect for Jeff, I’ll need to run that by him to make sure he’s okay with me being The Ed Bickert Dude while he’s gone.

[pamosmusic]

Here’s some blues with those:

[Mick-7]

I got a template from this website and make my own(examples attached). It's a holistic approach, I learn the intervals, chord tone numbers (root, 3rd, 5th....) and note names as opposed to just rote memorization of grips. Then you can do fun stuff like drop the 5 and add a 9 to every 6 chord and get more grips.

I was learning these sorts of voicings (below) when I was in my college jazz band and I still remember how annoyed the bass player got about me playing them.

Clearly I was no Freddie Green.

[rpjazzguitar]

Lots of good suggestions on how to find the chords. I like Chuck Wayne's system of organizing them. It's a long story which I've posted before, so I'll leave it at that.

What I would like to add is a comment about context. Ordinarily, playing 3s and 7s on the D and G strings works well and is deservedly tried and true.

But, now and then some combination of the song, the band, the guitarist/gear and the room will make that approach sound muddy and it will be better to play on the G and B strings.

In other situations you might do well playing in an octave higher than the soloist.

And, if you have the tone right, playing strings 6, 4 and 3 can work great, a la Freddie Green.

So, I agree with the OP's bass playing friend that the guitar can certainly make mud with the bass and that laying off the low E and A strings can help solve the problem. But none of this is 100%. I'd say that you always have to consider the context and adjust based on giving the band the best sound.

So, a command of two note things (which go beyond 3s and 7s), shells on 643, 4 note chords on 4321, single notes outlining guide tones etc etc are all worth having in your repertoire of sounds. There are other string combinations that get used, but this is more than enough for one post.

[JazzPadd]

This is all great stuff, and enough to keep one busy for a long time.

I agree that context is crucial, perhaps finding ways to try some of these suggestions out between the practice shed and the formal gig, by playing informally with others (e.g. jam sessions or with a regular rehearsal/practice buddy).

About 2 note voicings on 3 and 4 (or 2 and 3), as has already been mentioned, there are possibilities beyond tritones that are fun and interesting to explore. So, for one example of many, 2nds and 3rds using Bb and C on 4 and 3 and moving the C to Db (or D) before resolving down to A and C on 4 and 3 within a ii V in F. Of course, it’s nothing new but has opened up a world of possibilities for me.

[rpjazzguitar]

This is all great stuff, and enough to keep one busy for a long time.

I agree that context is crucial, perhaps finding ways to try some of these suggestions out between the practice shed and the formal gig, by playing informally with others (e.g. jam sessions or with a regular rehearsal/practice buddy).

About 2 note voicings on 3 and 4 (or 2 and 3), as has already been mentioned, there are possibilities beyond tritones that are fun and interesting to explore. So, for one example of many, 2nds and 3rds using Bb and C on 4 and 3 and moving the C to Db (or D) before resolving down to A and C on 4 and 3 within a ii V in F. Of course, it’s nothing new but has opened up a world of possibilities for me.

For, say Dm7 G7 C, I might start by holding an A on the high E string and then playing a G on the B string. Then move the G to F and then perhaps E, or move both notes to get G/E.

Or tenths starting with x5xx6x and moving through the chords.

Or xx32xx and moving that one.

Lots of possibilities.

[AllanAllen]

I was learning these sorts of voicings (below) when I was in my college jazz band and I still remember how annoyed the bass player got about me playing them.

Clearly I was no Freddie Green.

Yeah, my point was more use the template to make your own charts. Not use these charts that aren’t what you are asking for.

I used these grips for a year, but I’m about ready to make middle four and top four charts for more comping options.

[JazzPadd]

For, say Dm7 G7 C, I might start by holding an A on the high E string and then playing a G on the B string. Then move the G to F and then perhaps E, or move both notes to get G/E.

Or tenths starting with x5xx6x and moving through the chords.

Or xx32xx and moving that one.

Lots of possibilities.

Thanks, I love using 2nds when apt, and moving the 3rd up a whole step is very nice. I’ll give the 10ths a whirl, too.

[Mick-7]

Yeah, my point was more use the template to make your own charts. Not use these charts that aren’t what you are asking for. I used these grips for a year, but I’m about ready to make middle four and top four charts for more comping options.

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/atta...s-img_4592-jpg

He could use those upside down.... put the notes that are on the low E string on the high E string instead.

[pamosmusic]

He could use those upside down.... put the notes that are on the low E string on the high E string instead.

literally this:

Check the first page of this document. The basic voicings are there with the roots on top. The rest of it is a little wild. Stuff I was working on for a particularly student.

These voicings are super easy to play and super flexible but they can be hard to orient yourself around because so often there’s no root. So I end up spending a lot of time practicing the voicings on this first page with the root on top, because if I can orient myself around the root, even when I’m not playing it, then the rest of it is cake.

Play these over ii-V-Is, blueses, tunes you’re working on, etc. The cycles in the rest of the pdf are cool but more useful for really hammering home a particular technique. Cycle of fourths is very useful, but I’d go for tunes instead.

rootless shell voicings diatonic cycles - Score.pdf - Google Drive

[Christian Miller]

Golly I’m blushing.

But out of respect for Jeff, I’ll need to run that by him to make sure he’s okay with me being The Ed Bickert Dude while he’s gone.

He don’t got the pdfs


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[AllanAllen]

He don’t got the pdfs


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But who’s got the tab?

[pamosmusic]

But who’s got the tab?

You clearly didn’t check the pdf

[AllanAllen]

lol, it’s been a while since I looked at it.

[pamosmusic]

lol, it’s been a while since I looked at it.

got em