8 strings for classical guitar

[Jonah]

Dear Friends,

I got thomann classical fusion 8 strings, very decently made guitar.
It is cheap and looks cheap but it has solid top and no flaws, the action setup, the frets - all done very well , we will see how it behaves in 6-8 months
Tunes also fine over the fretboard
it plays very smoothly, the neck is thick but not thicker than on German/Czech type of classical guitars, no issue for me, also i have no problems with fretting 7 -8strings,as I play lutes and the distances and feel is quite similar
maybe later I will do a demo, there is no decent demo with this guitar on youtube.

Sound is ok, decent middle and highs, not that good basses (which is a question mark for a guitar with extra basses), but I play without nails so I will swap these cheap strings anyway

And it is setup for 7 and 8 string to be tuned in D and C

I want to try different tunings but first in 4ths so B and F# respevtively
what strings would you recommend?
the scale is 65cm so quite short for F# but not undoable

for regular classical I use Knobloch carbon medium , their basses are extremely good

I also do not know if these guitars are buit to hold more tension or total tension should the same as 6 strings and oiu take less tendion per string

thank you

[Christian Miller]

DearvFreiends,

I got thomann classical fusion 8 strings, very decently made guitar.
It is cheap and looks cheap but it has solid top and no flaws, the action setup, the frets - all done very well , we will see how it behaves in 6-8 months
Tunes also fine over the fretboard
it plays very smoothly, the neck is thick but not thicker than on German/Czech type of classical guitars, no issue for me, also i have no problems with fretting 7 -8strings,as I play lutes and the distances and feel is quite similar
maybe later I will do a demo, there is no decent demo with this guitar on youtube.

Sound is ok, decent middle and highs, not that good basses (which is a question mark for a guitar with extra basses), but I play without nails so I will swap these cheap strings anyway

And it is setup for 7 and 8 string to be tuned in D and C

I want to try different tunings but first in 4ths so B and F# respevtively
what strings would you recommend?
the scale is 65cm so quite short for F# but not undoable

for regular classical I use Knobloch carbon medium , their basses are extremely good

I also do not know if these guitars are buit to hold more tension or total tension should the same as 6 strings and oiu take less tendion per string

thank you

Thanks for the report, Jonah. Would love to hear a demo.

So am I right in understanding that you are tuning it F# B E A D G B E? And the instrument is designed for C D E A D G B E (so lowest three strings going in steps?)

I'd be interested to know how this works out - I've been curious about the 7 string model. Good to have the lower bass for things like Bach and Weiss, and maybe work up a little Choro.

[Jonah]

Hi Christian,

yes the strings seem to be for low D and C, there is no official information but when it arrived it was out of tune but around these pitches and it was also obvious that when tuned strings set well at D and C

I am not sure the guitar is really designed for it, it is just strings.
most probably the design did not consider such subtleties

I also tried to tune 8th string in B ( so imagine it is 7th in my tuning and it feels much better)

My first try is F#-B-E-A-D-G-B-E because what I want is not just extra bass note here and there but more or less even polyphonic texture all over the fretboard, I want to play G maj7 an octave lower for example

I want to try also baroque lute tuning open D minor as I am familiar with and I want to see how fusion jazz staff will work with it, it has intetesting chords and resonance but maybe also certain limitations

another thing - I want to play Russian 7 string classical music - open G

Maybe also other variants, we will see I will do a demo once I get around it a bit


PS
for Bach and Weiss I don’t need it)

[Christian Miller]

Hi Christian,

yes the strings seem to be for low D and C, there is no official information but when it arrived it was out of tune but around these pitches and it was also obvious that when tuned strings set well at D and C

I am not sure the guitar is really designed for it, it is just strings.
most probably the design did not consider such subtleties

I also tried to tune 8th string in B ( so imagine it is 7th in my tuning and it feels much better)

My first try is F#-B-E-A-D-G-B-E because what I want is not just extra bass note here and there but more or less even polyphonic texture all over the fretboard, I want to play G maj7 an octave lower for example

I want to try also baroque lute tuning open D minor as I am familiar with and I want to see how fusion jazz staff will work with it, it has intetesting chords and resonance but maybe also certain limitations

another thing - I want to play Russian 7 string classical music - open G

Maybe also other variants, we will see I will do a demo once I get around it a bit


PS
for Bach and Weiss I don’t need it)

Do you have a lute?


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[Christian Miller]

I suppose one could also go for a high A and a low B, or “Brahms guitar” tuning with a low A


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[Jonah]

Do you have a lute?


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yes, I play lutes for more than 10 years now but last years almost exclusively baroque lute

[Jonah]

I suppose one could also go for a high A and a low B, or “Brahms guitar” tuning with a low A


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yes
I just recently saw a blog of this guitarist with an overview of hus new Brahms guitar ( it is quite old so it was new for me)
I think it is the same maker that made guitars for Galbraith

[Christian Miller]

yes, I play lutes for more than 10 years now but last years almost exclusively baroque lute

Nice.

I envy your diapasons.


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[Jonah]

small update

I ordered Savarez additional basses for classical guitar
4 basses low F,G,B,A as I play without nails so I tune nylon strings guitar normally half step down to have a softer touch

Strange that on strings by mail they have all types and they are cheaper than in Europe. Savarez is American company now ?(Maybe I missed something and Trump took it over?)
I found some Dutch website I hope they do not order from US

[Navdeep_Singh]

yes
I just recently saw a blog of this guitarist with an overview of hus new Brahms guitar ( it is quite old so it was new for me)
I think it is the same maker that made guitars for Galbraith

I have no idea who that guy is and can’t read the Cyrillic, but the guy who makes Galbraith’s guitars was Martin Woodhouse from Cambridge England. I have a Brahms by him, great guitar. Only issue is the G string, very temperamental. Mr. Woodhouse apparently inherited or otherwise received the tools and workspace of the original Brahms guitar luthier, David Rubio, who passed away.

to me, 8 string guitar is the way to go for all occasions, but especially solo guitar. You get George v Eps 7 string AND you get Lenny Breau’s 7 string, all in one guitar!

[Jonah]

I have no idea who that guy is and can’t read the Cyrillic, but the guy who makes Galbraith’s guitars was Martin Woodhouse from Cambridge England. I have a Brahms by him, great guitar. Only issue is the G string, very temperamental. Mr. Woodhouse apparently inherited or otherwise received the tools and workspace of the original Brahms guitar luthier, David Rubio, who passed away.

to me, 8 string guitar is the way to go for all occasions, but especially solo guitar. You get George v Eps 7 string AND you get Lenny Breau’s 7 string, all in one guitar!

thank you. The guy is a Russian guitarist and blogger mostly about classical guitar.

I will try Brahms guitar tuning to figure out its pros and cons…every tuning has it.

puting high A on top gives possibilities to play higher notes in low positions.

putting A below is more like Van Eps tuning - you have basses of 5th strings one octave lower.
I have some theoretical understanding how it should work but I shout try of course

Van Eps 7th is purely the idea of extra bass for texture bass+chords+melody

Tunings with 7 and 8 in F# sharp and B or G and B or G and C ( 3rd or 4th relations) makes it more like a symmeyrical‘keyboard’ conception, you have all the ranges more or less even

Open tunings like Russian7 or Baroque lute give special sonority but also lots of open strings in passages,
these tunings relatively rarely use barre, lines are performed like arpeggio or campaniles.
additional basses in baroque lute work to release the left hand and you have to develope much more right hand technique
But these tunings are limited in concept of keys, and they are very idiomatic

close and re-entrant tunings allow to play close voicings but also limit other things

[GuyBoden]

Very interesting, an 8 string classical guitar tuned in 4ths B-E-A-D-G-F-A-Bb, would be good for me as a challenge.

I played 7 string for many years:

I played 7 string tuned in 4ths, with a high "Bb" treble string for 10 years.
E-A-D-G-F-A-Bb

I played 7 string tuned in 4ths, with a low "B" bass string for 5 years.
B-E-A-D-G-F-A

[Jonah]

Very interesting, an 8 string classical guitar tuned in 4ths B-E-A-D-G-F-A-Bb, would be good for me as a challenge.

I played 7 string for many years:

I played 7 string tuned in 4ths, with a high "Bb" treble string for 10 years.
E-A-D-G-F-A-Bb

I played 7 string tuned in 4ths, with a low "B" bass string for 5 years.
B-E-A-D-G-F-A

very intetesting!
I feel like tuning in 4ths has advantage of retboard layout and kind of neutral convention but it loses some sonority and open shapes possibilities.
in some sense it is the opposite of open tunings that has lots of sonorities but also very idiomatic and limited to style, genre etc

it is for a reason that Spanish tuning became so universal it is a compromise between others.

yesterday I played with low B and G instead of F#
and there is an obvious change in sonority and resonance ( or course it picks up all consonant open strings and in this case it is a full triad).

And tuning B to C anffects also.
C is often week on acoustic guitar with fundamental bass C the note becomes more protruding everywhere

And also with G and C I tend to play in other keys
F# is more or less just the bottom note.. I relate it to harmonies of course but it is more like a choice of notes, and G and C match the tuning so evidently you cannot avoid using immediately certain keys and voicings

[Jonah]

Did anyone try Ortega?

I tried 7 strings a few years ago in a shop and was not impressed

I can actually order from Thomann, try both and return one. Or from Bax music (same return policy)

what puts me off: 69 cm scale, probably good for a bass but not for trebles, and I know what it is as I had lute of 70 cm scale in trad tuning and it chages playing technique.
And it is a cutaway with a piezo so it is not designed as a purely acoustic instrument!
the price is two times Thomann

and the one 7 strings I tried had issues, it needed setup… Thomann is cheap but flawless in that sense.

[Rob MacKillop]

Here’s my only 8-string contribution. The guitar is by Ibanez, and I only had it for a few days before selling it. The reason for the sale is that they kept the regular 6-string spacing, and continued the spacing for 7&8, and the neck was too chunky. But for the price it was pretty good.

The tuning was called Harp Sharp: treble to bass c# a f# d a e d b.

I just used the strings it arrived with. It’s the Ibanez G208CWC, but was only a short production run.

[Jonah]

thank you Rob

I heard this lovely record of yours already)

by the way for me it is important that on thomann guitar the spacings are as onbregular classical indeed, so the neck is big but I have more or less the same feel
I woud prefer it to be thinner and a bit rounded fretboard as on baroque lute then it is easier to fret low strings

i think it is very individual I get used to different necks very quickly, but others can never adjust

[Jonah]

By the way I am thinking more and more about Brahms or similar tuning
i.e. adding a higher string
one of the ideas I have is to have low range texture but adding more basses can give it but combining it with high notes is still difficult: you either have to go to high position and it can be difficult and less sonorous or you switch between low and high registers like in usual guitar just with more basses

and in Brahms tuning you can play for example Gmaj7
3xx777 ( trad tuning) as x3xxx332
or
you can play 33x20x03 very broad and open voicing of C major

to do the same in F#-B- tuning you will have to do
8xxxx777 possible but more tricky and bass can sound worse and contextual plsying will be more difficult
and C major
68x75455 obviously impossible
of course different tunings are different solutions you do not have to copy paste voicings

in any case one should consider broader neck and and strech, not everyone can grab even x3xxx332 easily and use it in real musical context

but still it is obvious that adding both high and low strings brings all the guitar ranges to more or less equal accessability.

and adding two lower basses highlights and explores more a baritone nature of guutar range

[Jonah]

By the way if one has an 8 string with extra basses you tune 8th in low E and 3rd in F#, then set a capo at the 5th fret and you can explore the Brahms guitar tuning fingerings at least to get an idea.

and as the 3rd is between 3rd and 4th strings the tuning is like renaissance lute in A