Rest or free stroke?

[Christian Miller]

that is the best part of the lesson! how many shake-that-pick-out-of-your-guitar competitions i`ve held over the years....

also, wanna see my photo collection of broken headstocks and stamped-on 3/4 guitars?

I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe


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[Christian Miller]

I think, free stroke is easier and more intuitive. That's how a kid starts playing right away if you tell them to use i m technique without telling them how it's done. No one in my practice default to rest stroke unless i show them.

Of course, i m by itself is not intuitive for beginners because the first thing they do is start playing with their thumb haha. That's the most natural way of picking I guess? Wes got it right!

Pick is the worst to teach. Most young kids find it uncomfortable, it takes a while, and sometimes i give up. Do whatever you want kiddo.

Yeah I’m sympathetic to that view too, cause that’s how I learned. Free strokes are the most versatile. But then you are nagging about wrist position instead.

Correct classical free stroke technique is not intuitive. Or at least it never was for me, and every classical teach I ever had nagged me about having my wrist too low.

Choose your poison. The nagging will happen.

Of course Wes used rest strokes with the thumb which is not a thing in classical guitar. But that’s how I was teaching until, probably this term. I think we’ll be back to classical apoyando because I don’t like what thumb does to the posture.


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[James W]

Of course Wes used rest strokes with the thumb which is not a thing in classical guitar.

It is, actually. Carcassi recommended using a rest stroke with the thumb where possible. I use a rest stroke with a thumb for much of BWV 998 because it helps stabilise the RH and produce a bigger sound - and there was a time that I would even practice the Allegro with a thumb rest stroke until I got in touch with my one time classical guitar teacher who told me I didn't need to do that, thankfully - because I was finding it rather cumbersome for the busier bits. Ultimately it shouldn't matter whether you choose a thumb rest or free stroke (that is to say you should be able to produce a good sound with either) except practically when the bass gets busy, it's best not to make your life more difficult than it has to be (he also told me the guitar was different in Carcassi's day etc.)

Of course, the difference is classical guitarists generally use the thumb nail rather than Wes's thumb corn.

[Christian Miller]

It is, actually. Carcassi recommended using a rest stroke with the thumb where possible. I use a rest stroke with a thumb for much of BWV 998 because it helps stabilise the RH and produce a bigger hand - and there was a time that I would even practice the Allegro with a thumb rest stroke until I got in touch with a one time classical guitar teacher who told me I didn't need to do that, thankfully - because I was finding it rather cumbersome for the busier bits. Ultimately it shouldn't matter whether you choose a thumb rest or free stroke (that is to say you should be able to produce a good sound with either) except practically when the bass gets busy, it's best not to make your life more difficult than it has to be (he also told me the guitar was different in Carcassi's day etc.)

Of course, the difference is classical guitarists generally use the thumb nail rather than Wes's thumb corn.

Good to know.

I think thats a bit above my pay grade for what I’m working on though lol.

Frankly if I have a student who is ready to work on BWV998 I’d implore them to leave me and find someone who actually knows what they are doing.


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[emanresu]

Free stroke can be tweaked to sound big too. Just a tad more work than getting it instantly with rest stroke.

[pamosmusic]

Good to know.

I think thats a bit above my pay grade for what I’m working on though lol.

Frankly if I have a student who is ready to work on BWV998 I’d implore them to leave me and find someone who actually knows what they are doing.


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lol this is where I am.

Ive gotten a couple students into some decent workshops and colleges but I had a guy reach out once and he was in deep on the Villa Lobos etudes and was learning Catederal and I was like … “Hey this buddy of mine just finished his DMA at Indiana, here’s his number”

For what it’s worth I’m a free stroke all the time and rest stroke as needed guy.

Free stroke is all you need if you want to play moderately difficult music fairly well. But if you’re studying to be a classical guitarist, then James is right on this one, for sure.

My guitar teacher in college said the pedagogy had shifted quite a lot in the last ten or fifteen years (and this was fifteen years ago) with free stroke being much more common than it had been. He said he was sort of agnostic on it, but he taught me using mostly free stroke and rest stroke as an effect.

I would use rest stroke for stuff like the beginning of Capricho Arabe or something but that’s about it.

[Christian Miller]

I have heard people say that the rest stroke is considered basically unnecessary now by some teachers if I’m not misremembering.

At some point it would be nice to get regular classical lessons, a decent guitar and work on some repertoire just for my own pleasure.

I’d really like to do that, but at the moment I have neither the money nor time.

Once I learned lute for a while. I had lessons, it was lovely. But I just didn’t have the ability to divide my attention like that even when I didn’t have kids.


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[emanresu]

Hm. After attending hundreds of classical guitar concerts, I think Aniello Desiderio had the most massive sound.
There were a quite a few noteworthy people more, of course. But as an example, he works here very well -
he uses free and rest stroke both, switches from one to another on the fly, in the middle of a measure when he likes.
And can make the concert hall's roof to lift up.

[jazznylon]

I would like to hear those teachers that only play free strokes have a go with etude 7 by villa lobos

[James W]

Hm. After attending hundreds of classical guitar concerts, I think Aniello Desiderio had the most massive sound.
There were a quite a few noteworthy people more, of course. But as an example, he works here very well -
he uses free and rest stroke both, switches from one to another on the fly, in the middle of a measure when he likes.
And can make the concert hall's roof to lift up.

Yeah, I've noticed David Russell do this too. Classical guitarists are encouraged to find a position for the RH where a minimal of readjustment is required for switching to and from rest stroke.

[pamosmusic]

I would like to hear those teachers that only play free strokes have a go with etude 7 by villa lobos

Played it on my senior recital.

[jazznylon]

Played it on my senior recital.

With only free strokes?

[pamosmusic]

With only free strokes?

Yeah. Doubt it was too terribly fast in the grand scheme.

I could get my Segovia scales in sixteenths at 120 pretty consistently though. So it probably wasn't a dirge either.

[jazznylon]

Nice. My past teacher briefly mentioned practicing free strokes scales. I didn't took it to heart because it made much more sense to do them rest strokes at the time. But I think there is value in working on free strokes that way too