Solo guitar tune #1 - Days of Wine and Roses

**PaulW10** · 01-20-2018, 04:00 PM

Hello All,

New song threads in this topic have started, but contributions to this song's thread are always still welcome as well. If you want to post a performance of or have discussions regarding The Days of Wine and Roses, please do so here and help keep this thread alive!

Inspired by the Jeff Arnold Study Group’s success and by comments expressed in the thread "What Perspectives Exist Here", I thought it would be fun to try and start up a solo guitar arranging group.

The idea is to start a different song thread periodically, hopefully at least monthly, and encourage everyone to post a video or recording of how they would play/arrange that particular tune for solo guitar (i.e. with no other accompaniment).

Suggested Guidelines

Here are general guidelines for the group.

1. All levels of players are strongly encouraged to participate, from beginners on up. We hope the group may even be rewarded occasionally, if not often, with contributions by seasoned pros and prominent guitarists. However, no matter your skill level you are strongly encouraged to join in. If you are open to hearing constructive comments and suggestions from the group, indicate #c&cwelcome in the title of your post.

2. The arrangement can be easy and simple, or elaborate and complex, or simply playing it on the fly. It’s all about each person’s own interpretation and approach.

3. After posting the arrangement, each person is encouraged to also post (in a video, on a recording or in writing) their approach to the song, or to specific parts of the song. This explanatory content can be in as much or as little detail as desired (or none at all). If the person is seeking specific help from the group this is a good place to ask for it.

4. Written notations of the arrangement are certainly not expected. Each person can decide how to handle any such requests from the group.

5. Future song selections and frequency will be made based on suggestions received and what appears to be a consensus. I’ll try and post a lead sheet for each song selection if that would be helpful. Of course, people can still play the song in any key (or keys) they choose.

6. Encouragement to each person for their contributions are encouraged. Unless the performer indicates a willingness to hear criticisms (see #1 above), participants should not offer criticisms of individual performances. Advice should only be offered if the person specifically asks for it. Resist criticizing anything to do with the interpretation or "artsy" side of the performance and comment on techniques and tips instead (for example playing a particular passage or sugegsting chord embellishments, etc.)

7. Participation in group discussions is encouraged for anyone, even if a person does not want to personally post their own arrangements at present for whatever reason.

Goals of Group

1. To encourage each other to become better solo guitar players and to share knowledge and skills in a friendly and helpful setting. It seems that if we individually work up an arrangement and then bring it to the group, it will be invaluable to see how people handled the song or specific parts of the song. We will all enhance our guitar skills and vocabulary. I would think new ideas would even be useful to the most advanced players.

2. To increase our repertoire of solo guitar songs.

3. To build confidence in playing for others, sharing our skills and in recording ourselves.

Since there is a new thread for each song, there is no time pressure to keep up with the group. People can post to each song thread when they’re ready to.

The Days of Wine and Roses was suggested as a good first song for the group to tackle. Attached a pdf of a lead sheet in the key of F if that would be helpful.

**matt.guitarteacher** · 01-20-2018, 08:02 PM

I'm in.

Originally Posted by PaulW10

Does anyone have thoughts or suggestions to make the group a success? Do you think you'll want to participate as time allows?

This is a great, well thought-out post, Paul. I think it's just right. I don't know the secret sauce for really getting players of all levels involved, esp. entry-level CM.

Honestly, I think it might be cool to open up the weeks before the thing is "go" to troubleshooting or work-shopping problem spots with voicings etc. It might encourage those who are just trying to figure out *one* way to get through the thing. This is a pretty good one for that. It's mostly straightforward, but it has a few spots that would've given me fits a few years ago.

Why not open this last week or so before February up to only asking/answering questions regarding sticking points on basic approach or chord voicings? Maybe text only... I think it might encourage more involvement at all levels. If that idea was popular, we could do the same - but farther ahead of time - for future tunes.

Just a thought...

**mr. beaumont** · 01-21-2018, 01:15 AM

Definitely in.

**jazzdan** · 01-21-2018, 01:23 AM

Count me in

**jazzdan** · 01-21-2018, 04:17 PM

I like the idea of each group being independent and making their own song choices and I especially like the idea of this group coming up with various levels of difficulty as far as the arrangements go. I wouldn't tackle How Deep Is The Ocean because I would never use it because of the difficulty in sight reading it.....Dan

**PaulW10** · 01-21-2018, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by jazzdan

I like the idea of each group being independent and making their own song choices and I especially like the idea of this group coming up with various levels of difficulty as far as the arrangements go. I wouldn't tackle How Deep Is The Ocean because I would never use it because of the difficulty in sight reading it.....Dan

Yeah I agree Dan. I think what makes a good solo guitar song is a nice melody and there are so many to choose from.

One thing I like about solo guitar is the opportunity to totally personalize it. I also believe simple arrangements can be very enjoyable for listeners. I really hope players of all levels will feel welcome to participate in this group.

**gggomez** · 01-21-2018, 05:03 PM

My thinking is to learn deeper.

I love taking a song that does not float my boat and try and make it work for me.

Personal thoughts only.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**lawson-stone** · 01-21-2018, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by jazzdan

What key are you doing it in Lawson? I found an arrangement in the key of c that I'm beginning to work on.....Dan

I'm using the Real Book lead sheet, which is in F.

**alltunes** · 01-22-2018, 09:23 AM

Thanks for picking Days of Wine and Rose...a great tune with a great melody.

I thought the thread concept would be more like "Solo Guitar - Days of Wine and Roses" with no reference to a month year or any other time restraint but rather a "parking place" to store ideas, performances, analysis and thoughts about the specific tune as it relates to solo guitar.

Regardless I'm in and look forward to it! I will post something soon...even if it is in developmental stages...that would be part of the learning process.

After a video submission I just may post a few chord grids Ted Green style for certain chords....fairly quick and easy to do.

I believe the playing order on a Ted Green sheet goes:

1)filled in circle
2) x
3) square
4) triangle

I've attached a small sample...like I said I'm a beginner but I liked the way these two chords sound for measure 9 and 10

**omphalopsychos** · 01-22-2018, 10:28 AM

This is a cool group. I don't know if I'll have time this month (playing in 2 ensembles at the moment), but I thought I'd at least contribute one thing: transcription of Wes' chord melody. There are some cool ideas in here; i think it's worth a look.

WES MONTGOMERY: DAYS OF WINE & ROSES

**lawson-stone** · 01-22-2018, 11:15 AM

It's kind of interesting to me that it's hard to find this tune in any of the "standards arranged for solo guitar" type books. Reinforces perhaps that it's a good choice! We're on our own.

I've completed a basic setting of the whole tune using pretty common chord grips, and also figured out one way to handle measure 3, with the D7b5b9 moving to D7nat5nat9, which was hanging me up a little.

I'm looking forward to the discussion here!

**andyb** · 01-22-2018, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

It's kind of interesting to me that it's hard to find this tune in any of the "standards arranged for solo guitar" type books. Reinforces perhaps that it's a good choice! We're on our own.

There is this?

**lawson-stone** · 01-22-2018, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by andyb

There is this?

Well that would be one way to short-circuit the whole process! I looked at a line and decided not to look anymore, since I really want to see how far I can get without outside help. But it looks, from one line, like a playable treatment, though there isn't much bass action and there are holes. Solo guitar has the challenge of creating that illusion of an ensemble. that's turning out for me to be the real challenge. The voicings turn out to be pretty easy for a basic setting of the tune, but making it "work" so as to engage an audience... a different challenge!

**John A.** · 01-22-2018, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by PaulW10

It's great to see all the participants thus far!

We're feeling this along as we go of course. Matt had suggested waiting until February with videos which gives people time. However if someone wants to post I'd hate to discourage any contributions. My original thinking was that participants would post a video of the complete song and then discuss any aspects of their arrangements they see fit, and take questions about it of course.

What does everyone else think? I think if people want to begin posting and start the conversations I don't want to to discourage that.

I started working on it this morning. It isn't the easiest song that's for sure! But it does leave a lot of room for interpretation!

Just before l left for work this morning, I saw there was a major transit delay, so I figured what the heck? Why not kill that time more productively at home rather than waiting on a subway platform? I didn't notice it was for next month until after the fact. But since somebody has to break the ice, why not jump the gun and kill two metaphors (no, three!) with one stone?

This is on the fly rather than arranged. I play this tune quite a bit and feel pretty free on it. At one point I had a full arrangement, largely stolen from Wes, but i find it more enjoyable to just play, and Wes already did Wes's version.

Though not arranged, there are a couple of things I usually do. For instance, the first voicing I play here is my usual point of entry. On the second ending, instead of an Amin7b5/E7 change (per the Real Book chart), I just do a rootless E7#9, do that little hammer-on lick rather than a full III-vi-II-V, and end the tune on Bbmin6 rather than Fmaj. This is partly stolen from the Pat Martino version on Exit (my vote for best version ever).

Between those bookends, I like to just let whatever happens happen. Ideally, it happens without stumbles and dropped/added beats, but not always ...

John

EDITED: Critiques and suggestions welcome.
#c&cwelcome

**PaulW10** · 01-22-2018, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by gggomez

My thinking is to learn deeper.

I love taking a song that does not float my boat and try and make it work for me.

Personal thoughts only.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree with you on this gggomez. Some of my favorite songs of all time did not appeal to me at first.

I imagine participants in this group will surely have songs they want to suggest for the group to try solo style which is why perhaps we should make our own song selections here?

Originally Posted by alltunes

Thanks for picking Days of Wine and Rose...a great tune with a great melody.

I thought the thread concept would be more like "Solo Guitar - Days of Wine and Roses" with no reference to a month year or any other time restraint but rather a "parking place" to store ideas, performances, analysis and thoughts about the specific tune as it relates to solo guitar.

Regardless I'm in and look forward to it! I will post something soon...even if it is in developmental stages...that would be part of the learning process.....

Thanks for making the suggestion for this first song alltunes! It seems people are liking working on it.

I think we're together on what we thought the concept would be. I think the only reason I first put a month on there was possibly as a reference to how often we would start a new song thread. But you're right, why bother? We can add new song threads whenever we want. Why put a time constraint? For that reason you'll notice I changed the title of the thread to song #1 and eliminated the February reference.

Originally Posted by omphalopsychos

This is a cool group. I don't know if I'll have time this month (playing in 2 ensembles at the moment), but I thought I'd at least contribute one thing: transcription of Wes' chord melody. There are some cool ideas in here; i think it's worth a look.

WES MONTGOMERY: DAYS OF WINE & ROSES

Wow thanks for posting this! I can't wait to study how Wes the master approached it. However, I'm resisting studying it too closely until I'm sort of happy with what I come up with on my own. Like Lawson mentions I want to see what I first can get on my own without outside help. It's one reason I've been trying to get mine done before others start posting their versions and they start influencing me.

Anyway, I know it's hard to find time for a thread like this. I hope you can participate as soon as you can!

**PaulW10** · 01-22-2018, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by John A.

Just before l left for work this morning, I saw there was a major transit delay, so I figured what the heck? Why not kill that time more productively at home rather than waiting on a subway platform? I didn't notice it was for next month until after the fact. But since somebody has to break the ice, why not jump the gun and kill two metaphors (no, three!) with one stone?

This is on the fly rather than arranged. I play this tune quite a bit and feel pretty free on it. At one point I had a full arrangement, largely stolen from Wes, but i find it more enjoyable to just play, and Wes already did Wes's version.

Though not arranged, there are a couple of things I usually do. For instance, the first voicing I play here is my usual point of entry. On the second ending, instead of an Amin7b5/E7 change (per the Real Book chart), I just do a rootless E7#9, do that little hammer-on lick rather than a full III-vi-II-V, and end the tune on Bbmin6 rather than Fmaj. This is partly stolen from the Pat Martino version on Exit (my vote for best version ever).

Between those bookends, I like to just let whatever happens happen. Ideally, it happens without stumbles and dropped/added beats, but not always ...

John

Hey John. Great job!! And thanks very much for breaking the ice and being the first one out of the gate to post their version!! Although there had been some initial discussion about posting starting in February, I get the sense that there are a lot of people wanting to get the ball rolling so why try and hold back the dam (talk about metaphors...three in this paragraph so far). And you'll see the title of the thread is changed to eliminate the February reference anyhow.

I really liked your version and the changes/chords you used. So, are you referring to a lead sheet when you play in the video? It doesn't matter of course and either way it sounds great. I was wondering your method for deciding what lines to play during improv.

**John A.** · 01-22-2018, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by PaulW10

I really liked your version and the changes/chords you used. So, are you referring to a lead sheet when you play in the video? It doesn't matter of course and either way it sounds great. I was wondering your method for deciding what lines to play during improv.

Thanks.

I'm not referring to a lead sheet while playing this; I try as much as possible to play from memory, and just use charts when I don't really know the tune. As far as improv decisions go, this was pretty freely/spontaneously improvised, without a lot of thought about what to play. Overall, If I really know a tune, I don't think much. If I don't know it is well, most of my thought revolves around not getting lost and being aware of the harmony. I consciously practice note choices, changes and reharmonizations, phrasing, voicings, etc., but when I play a tune in it's entirety, what happens happens.

John

**mr. beaumont** · 01-22-2018, 05:10 PM

This will be great...I'm tempted to listen to John A., but I want to try mine without any utside influence at first...I used to play this tune all the time, and now I'm realizing I haven't played it in ages...I want to sit down and try a first take and see what I remember of it, but that could be disastrous!

**PaulW10** · 01-22-2018, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by John A.

Thanks.

I'm not referring to a lead sheet while playing this; I try as much as possible to play from memory, and just use charts when I don't really know the tune. As far as improv decisions go, this was pretty freely/spontaneously improvised, without a lot of thought about what to play. Overall, If I really know a tune, I don't think much. If I don't know it is well, most of my thought revolves around not getting lost and being aware of the harmony. I consciously practice note choices, changes and reharmonizations, phrasing, voicings, etc., but when I play a tune in it's entirety, what happens happens.

John

Thanks for the explanation! I really liked what you did with it.

I don't play much improv at all when playing solo although I'd like to try and incorporate some more. I find myself trying to think of where I am in the chord changes which is tough as no one else is playing along to keep me in line! I guess one thing that's good is it really shouldn't matter to me as long as I can find my way back into the song somehow!

**PaulW10** · 01-22-2018, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

This will be great...I'm tempted to listen to John A., but I want to try mine without any utside influence at first...I used to play this tune all the time, and now I'm realizing I haven't played it in ages...I want to sit down and try a first take and see what I remember of it, but that could be disastrous!

I know what you mean Jeff! I really want to get mine done so I can analyze what I really did on my own versus what I subconsciously may have stolen, I mean was influenced by

**lawson-stone** · 01-22-2018, 05:38 PM

So here's my "real time" stab at the first 16 measures. I'm thinking out loud while working down the lead sheet and seeing what voicings seem to work. Not a finished version at all, just a first run with more than my fair share of mistakes.

This should make anyone feel much, much better about their own efforts!

**PaulW10** · 01-22-2018, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

So here's my "real time" stab at the first 16 measures. I'm thinking out loud while working down the lead sheet and seeing what voicings seem to work. Not a finished version at all, just a first run with more than my fair share of mistakes.

This should make anyone feel much, much better about their own efforts!

Hi Lawson,

I'm at work and should be working, but I had to stop and watch your video. Wonderful stuff! It's really fun and informative. You've got a great delivery style and sense of humor. And this is going to be very helpful to a lot of people I'm sure. It was a really good idea to document going through it in real time, especially in the beginning phases of this group. Amazing how fast you pulled it together and it sounded good!!. I found your use of the harmonized scale to be really helpful. Thanks for posting this!
Paul

**lawson-stone** · 01-22-2018, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by PaulW10

Hi Lawson,

I'm at work and should be working, but I had to stop and watch your video. Wonderful stuff! It's really fun and informative. You've got a great delivery style and sense of humor. And this is going to be very helpful to a lot of people I'm sure. It was a really good idea to document going through it in real time, especially in the beginning phases of this group. Amazing how fast you pulled it together and it sounded good!!. I found your use of the harmonized scale to be really helpful. Thanks for posting this!
Paul

Thanks for that kind word. I find I can almost imagine the folks on this forum, at least, the ones I've interacted with for a while, sitting in the room and just talking about doing the tune. Once I have that mindset, then it becomes easy just to read down the chart and try voicings. I also have this pattern that every single day I video record 10-15 minutes of my practice playing. Then driving back and forth from work, or on errands, I listen to it and it's easy to enjoy it and critique it because it's almost like it's not me anymore, just some guy. After listening and thinking about it, I usually delete the clip unless I want to post it for some reason.

Daily recording helps me make good clips because the freeze-up when the record button gets pushed isn't so great, it's no big deal. Learning to be somewhat objective (both positive and critical) is very helpful for growth, and clips help me do that.

**PaulW10** · 01-22-2018, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Thanks for that kind word. I find I can almost imagine the folks on this forum, at least, the ones I've interacted with for a while, sitting in the room and just talking about doing the tune. Once I have that mindset, then it becomes easy just to read down the chart and try voicings. I also have this pattern that every single day I video record 10-15 minutes of my practice playing. Then driving back and forth from work, or on errands, I listen to it and it's easy to enjoy it and critique it because it's almost like it's not me anymore, just some guy. After listening and thinking about it, I usually delete the clip unless I want to post it for some reason.

Daily recording helps me make good clips because the freeze-up when the record button gets pushed isn't so great, it's no big deal. Learning to be somewhat objective (both positive and critical) is very helpful for growth, and clips help me do that.

Excellent idea about recording yourself and listening to the video when driving etc. I'm sure that helps your phrasing and approach. I'm sure it's nice to hear yourself as well, very rewarding

In the limited video recording I've done of myself I get VERY nervous when I hit the play button. It makes no sense as I'm the only one there and no one else will see it if I don't want them to. That's something I'm hoping this thread will help me cure.

I was wondering....do you have some kind of video editing software you use to put in your intro screens etc?

**lawson-stone** · 01-22-2018, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by PaulW10

Excellent idea about recording yourself and listening to the video when driving etc. I'm sure that helps your phrasing and approach. I'm sure it's nice to hear yourself as well, very rewarding

In the limited video recording I've done of myself I get VERY nervous when I hit the play button. It makes no sense as I'm the only one there and no one else will see it if I don't want them to. That's something I'm hoping this thread will help me cure.

I was wondering....do you have some kind of video editing software you use to put in your intro screens etc?

Yes I've evolved a setup that works well for me. I use a ProSonus Audiobox iTwo, which is one of the cheaper USB interfaces out there. I use one channel for a backing track or the microphone (if I'm talking). The other channel is for the guitar, either mic'ing the amp or using a direct line out. The USB port then goes to my iPhone's Lightning port and I record on the iPhone.

The resulting file I move to my laptop and I use a program called Screenflow. I use it to prepare lectures for my students when I'm out of town or produce extended learning units. It captures video from a file, from the webcam, or from the screen itself. It was designed for educators and presenters who need to create video with pretty good control of color, sound, etc. with basic transitions and titles, but it's not some elaborate professional program. I drop the clip into Screenflow, make my text titles and add any pictures I want to use. Screenflow also has some basic audio tweaks. I can change the "pan" of the audio, and I usually blend the signals toward the center for web clips. I also can reduce the levels and such as that. Not a lot of EQ and pro-audio, but enough to create a decent clip.

Then Screenflow allows me to "output" the finished clip in whatever format I need, and it has presets that normally work fine for me. Over time I've learned to do this pretty quickly and exploit the potential of the program, though it's got limits.

Hope that helps!