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When I play live, many of the tunes will have a few wrong notes in my solo. I'm getting the note I want like 99% of the time, but of course I get a bit obsessed with the wrong notes. Seems like the pro players and legends don't have these wrong notes.
Then I was noticing, lot of people put out clips of their gigs on YT or facebook. These are 30 second clips or sometimes a full solo of 2-3 minutes. Seldom do I see anyone putting out video of a full gig or even a full song. Is everyone else having a few bad notes too, but only releasing video of the spots where you're playing everything right?
Then there's the home videos of people playing solo arrangements or backing tracks, you could do 20 takes of that until you get a good one.
The other day I watched a bunch of videos or guys like Herb Ellis, Howard Roberts, they have a few clams too. Frank Vignola will play a few straight bars of trash here and there. I'm starting to feel like I'm not the only one. On the other hand, I see no clams ever from Wes, Bern, and Pasquale.
Well in any event, I'm trying to get rid of these clams. Looking for more ideas if you have any. So far the ideas are:
know the tune well
for tunes I don't know, practice reading new tunes and soloing with a chart
listen to lots of jazz
maintain concentration by not worrying about outside stuff
don't try to play too much stuff, take rests, don't overplay
Play some really hard stuff at home that I would not be likely to do at a gig, like Giant Steps and Cherokee
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06-05-2024 04:46 PM
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"the note I want"
What is the nature of this note (note name, scale degree, chord tone/extension/alteration, relative interval, fingering, pitch, other)? How far in advance do you know the note you want?
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If I work on thinking ahead of the changes, I hit less bad notes.
The live videos I post are just clips someone else took so they go up clams and all.
Funny enough, a cellphone pointed at me pulls me out of the tune and I usually clam things up for the camera.
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Even Wes birthed a clam on occasion. One that leaps to mind is a live video of this beautiful version of Here’s That Rainy Day.
On the reprise of the theme, toward the end, when the camera is up close, he flubs a chord but shrugs it off with an impish grin and moves on. I can’t find the clip now but it’s on YT. It’s humbling, for me.
Edit: Found the video, the part in mind is at around 5:30, but the whole song is worth a listen.
What a gem of a player!
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Wrong note or jazz, yeah good question.
Originally Posted by pauln
For me, the sounds come to me in complete phrases. Usually a 4 bar phrase. It comes to be and I play it, nearly simultaneously. By the middle of the phrase I know where I want things to land, and how I want it to sound. The beginning of a phrase might be exploratory, but the ending is something I want to land in a specific way. Sometimes I can't land it, sometimes it's passable though. Other times it clearly sounds bad, to me at least. I'm not one of those people who thinks there's "no rules in jazz" or any note is fine, I am going for a very specific sound. If I'm ending on a sharp 5 but I wanted to end on a major 3, that's a bad note.
There's other times where it's just a lack of focus. You can't win em all and I am trying to just accept those and get back to focused.
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Watched that clip, yeah wes fretted the chord 1 fret too high. Never seen or heard him mess up before!
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A recent thread posted a link to this statement:
"There are no wrong notes in jazz,” isn’t quite true. “Wrong” notes have to be bought and paid for by the integrity of the line. Bird was already exceptional at making unexpected notes authentic in the classical jazz style, and Tristano took it even further, consistently figuring out how to “acclimatize” extremely dissonant pitches."
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Record all the time. It puts you under the effing microscope and you get better at zoning in on accurate playing.
About are people messing up? Elite pro players are to the point where they will only mess up sparingly to where it won't ruin any performance, or they will actually make no mistakes. But if you listen closely, elite pro players do make mistakes seldomely. So average advanced/pro players sure do also.
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Rhythm
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Painful truth is that if you can’t play, every note sounds a bit wrong. Part of this is beginners don’t hear and feel music at the phrase level.
If you can play the main thing separating a ‘clam’ from a good note is intention and execution. The audience can’t know what you intended to play, but they will pick up on a lack of intention or a momentary loss of focus or overthinking. The phrase gets away from you.
It’s nothing to do with what note you are playing.
Otoh mistakes are underrated
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I can't tell you the amount of 'mistakes' that I have made playing solo fingerstyle guitar live especially while improvising.
I've come to understand that as long as it's not a train wreck it's fine and most, or all, of the audience doesn't even notice.
It's also funny that sometimes when I feel that I didn't play well people tell me how good I played. The audience perspective and our own perspective is so radically different.
Regarding YouTube, I don't have time to do 50 takes of a tune. All mine are first, second or at most third takes so they can be fairly roughish but that's reality imo.
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I’ve not noticed much of a correspondence between how well I think I played on a gig and how well I actually played.
For example, you might not have played how you wanted or what you’d been working on, but what you actually played might have sounded great. You may have been rushing when you felt the music was really vibey, but the gig that felt a little flat might have been much more in the pocket. The gig with odd on stage sound might have sounded great up front. You might be beating yourself up about missing things in the charts, but in reality you nailed 95% of the music on a dep reading gig and everyone’s pretty impressed.
Or maybe not, and you’re right on all counts and it sucked haha.
Its nuts. I honestly think most players have NFI, so why worry? Just try and stay out of your own head and it’ll be good. Develop a good poker face and learn to say ‘yeah man!’ a lot. One thing for certain, noone wants to hear about how bad you think you played…
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Nfi?
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No F'in idea.... Originally Posted by AllanAllen
Christian hit the nail on the head ..we have to get out of our own heads when we are playing and just be in the moment ( which is of course easier with material that you are thoroughly comfortable with).
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Can confirm. I only really notice what the guys in my group are doing if they go out enough to make me think I’m making a mistake. Originally Posted by Liarspoker
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Man that is so true. I played at this little community festival thing last weekend and this singer songwriter was on before us and she said into the mic “well that wasn’t too bad even though I’m sure you guys noticed where I missed that chord before the chorus.” Originally Posted by Christian Miller
And I was like … well they did now.
No one notices your mistakes until you tell them.
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I mean … generally good practice to notice what the other guys are doing Originally Posted by AllanAllen
I think the times I feel best are when I can remember exactly what the drummer was doing but have no recollection whatsoever of what I did
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Even top classical guitarists make mistakes when performing. At some point one has to let go otherwise no one would be out there making music. Guitar is too unpredictable of an instrument anyways
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Jazz adage I learned in school: There are no mistakes, only resolutions.
i.e. if you play a "wrong" note, play a note that resolves it. Or play the "wrong" note three more times :-)
And Peter is absolutely right about poker face vs telling the audience about the mistake.
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I have this umbrella of sounds good. If things sound good I bob my head, tap my foot and enjoy myself. If someone gets rhythmic I like to follow. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
I mean … generally good practice to notice what the other guys are doing
I think the times I feel best are when I can remember exactly what the drummer was doing but have no recollection whatsoever of what I did
If someone goes harmonically crunchy I need to focus that it’s not me a measure or half step off.
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I often play at my worst when I know musicians are in the audience. So, as long as I don't know there are (pro) musicians in the crowd I play OK.
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Thank you all for the good advice in this thread.
I just can't behind the "there are no mistakes" stuff. The idea that they have to be bought and paid for by the rest of the line is interesting. I can "fix" a few mistakes with resolutions here and there but it's not ideal.
I agree the audience does not care most of the time. But I think there's a level of gigs you can advance to where most of the players are playing quite well and everything sounds good, at which time the audience does care and mistakes really stand out. And then there's a level where it's background music and who cares if you have a few clams. I'd like to be able to hang with the top players and play the well known jazz clubs some day.
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Play the background gigs to get good enough to play the nightclub gigs. Originally Posted by JazzIsGood
But really, everyone wants to see and play a good show. The guy who will give you shit for landing on F# over a D minor was going to give you shit anyway. You need to not let these types get under your skin. Usually they’re just jealous your playing out, but the only effort they put into gigs is waiting for the phone to ring.
Gigging is strange. I’ve had people come up and tell me there are no jazz gigs or players here while I’m literally playing a jazz gig with the band I made from local dudes.
A line is short, hopefully you play a thousand in a gig. Who cares if two of them bent to cover a flub.
Actually, are you gigging? Once you get out there, you don’t really think about the mistakes. I think about general improvements all the time, but a missed chord just flies by and if the next one is right, it’s all good.
Jo Jones never threw that cymbal at Charlie Parker, that’s just a myth.
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I present to you, one of my very favorite moments in recorded jazz (the link should cue you up to the right spot, but if not, we're looking for about 04:19): Originally Posted by JazzIsGood
Clifford Brown trips over his own shoelaces and sticks the landing.
(Also rewind it. This is one of the most beautiful recordings in the jazz canon and Clifford's solo is about as good as it gets).
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