Things not learned in music school...

**christianm77** · 04-20-2018, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by p1p

Why do you need a degree in music?

Universities and colleges are big money businesses that simply care about selling more and more degrees. Look at the billboards targeting youth... "Do you want to design aircraft?", "Do you want to be a fashion designer?", "Do you want to be a DJ?"... like are you f*cking kidding me?! There's a ticket you can buy to be some superstar? Sign me up!

Sorry, it clearly bothers me.

It’s helpful to have a degree in music if you want a teaching job. Not having a degree from a top college is a good reason for someone to discard your cv from the many they will receive.

However, personal networks remain the best way to get a gig. Obviously.

That’s the way I get my work. While i have no music degree I am specifically qualified as a music educator (thanks to a Yamaha bursary via the late lamented Jazz Services UK) but I am under no illusions that a Royal Academy graduate in performance wouldn’t be favoured every time in a cold application, even though a performance degree has no actual bearing on someone’s teaching. That’s just life....

People don’t look at what you studied - just where you went.

I would advise anyone to think carefully before getting a music degree. TBH
in the UK I’d suggest they go to continent* and study for free, unless they can get a scholarship to the US colleges or are trust fund babies.

I’ll add it’s really obvious to me at undergrad level which players are going to have a career playing to some extent and who will maybe end up doing something else. It’s not just talent.

*we’ll see how Brexit affects that...

**p1p** · 04-20-2018, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

However, personal networks remain the best way to get a gig. Obviously.

Music aside, this is it. It’s also how you can get in with learning from the best. I can’t say I’ve been lucky that way with music yet, but from my other career(s), my first at a particularly high, competitive level.

**pcsanwald** · 04-20-2018, 02:57 PM

Not sure why he felt the need to call out Juilliard at the end as being specifically not valuable. The classical and jazz programs there are very different, if he's talking about the jazz program, one reason is that it's a very small program. And if he's talking classical, that's apples and oranges for someplace like Berklee, especially as classical folks working orchestral jobs generally will move after school.

**andrew42** · 04-20-2018, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt

I know but the story is the same. You should have heard the things some of my instructors and professors said about the market and the, uh, wealth building possibilities for musicians, back then. Just like today, they taught, they gigged, they scuffled.

I have attended a number of music schools and colleges on both coasts and in flyover country. I currently attend Berklee Online, off and on. It's fun. It's not perfect but I'm very grateful that it's there! There is nothing quite like Berkee and there never has been.

At Berklee I have encountered a number of top notch teachers/playing pros. They have ALL been frank and honest about the music scene, yet they still teach music with depth and high artistic standards. Students grouse too. Berklee has a number of courses about the music biz and how to make it these days, etc., etc., etc.

One would really have to live under a rock not to hear the sobering characterization about "the scene" (or lack thereof). So maybe we're building a rock (of denial) to live under. Young students are idealistic and tell themselves - "that won't apply to me". They choose not to listen. Where some are concerned, that's a great thing. But for most...

Good points. Again, while his POV is certainly not a revelation for many of us, I feel this is directed at the "It'll be different for me" crowd ie. Younger players/students

**christianm77** · 04-20-2018, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by andrew42

Good points. Again, while his POV is certainly not a revelation for many of us, I feel this is directed at the "It'll be different for me" crowd ie. Younger players/students

I get the impression that a sizeable fraction of Adams viewers are teenagers.

**Stevebol** · 04-21-2018, 05:16 AM

I like both kinds of music, college music and blues.

**Stevebol** · 04-21-2018, 05:21 AM

**mrcee** · 04-21-2018, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by Stevebol

To paraphrase Ricky Nelson, I would definitely rather drive a truck.

**andrew42** · 04-21-2018, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by mrcee

To paraphrase Ricky Nelson, I would definitely rather drive a truck.

Same, but that likely has to do more with my outlook at this age than anything. Fwiw, these gigs usually pay $400-$600 per player, so there's that.

**Stevebol** · 04-21-2018, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by mrcee

To paraphrase Ricky Nelson, I would definitely rather drive a truck.

Shovel poop, wash dishes. I can think of all kinds of things I'd rather do.

**mrcee** · 04-21-2018, 11:22 AM

No kiddin'.

The money sounds good but (and I could be wrong here) if it's basically 3 days by the time you do whatever preparation is necessary, travel way out of town (State maybe if you're in the NE) and at least part of a day to regroup maybe not so much. Also there's surely a 1099 involved which will cut your take by a third. $600 would be good but $400 a little light imo. Anyway not really worth a $400,000 education.

**christianm77** · 04-21-2018, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Stevebol

Shovel poop, wash dishes.

Has less of a ring to it than ‘chop wood, carry water’

**christianm77** · 04-21-2018, 12:24 PM

Yeah. Function gigs are a grind.

Life spent on the road at weekends.

**citizenk74** · 04-21-2018, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Yeah. Function gigs are a grind.

Life spent on the road at weekends.

A grind indeed, much of the time. On the other hand, weddings do provide a window into human nature that is, if not unique, at the least highly interesting. You get to observe two (usually distinct) groups - friends/relatives of the Bride and f/r of the groom - awkwardly interacting, usually under the influence of alcohol ingested more liberally than would ordinarily be the case (because someone else is buying), trying to make nice and touch all necessary bases while wearing their best (and least comfortable clothing) in a room that is too hot or too cold (or both, depending on your current blood alcohol/sugar level), with wretched acoustics compounded by the din of everyone shout/talking at once and just when you think it can't get any worse, the band starts to play!

**Jazzstdnt** · 04-21-2018, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by citizenk74

A grind indeed, much of the time. On the other hand, weddings do provide a window into human nature that is, if not unique, at the least highly interesting. You get to observe two (usually distinct) groups - friends/relatives of the Bride and f/r of the groom - awkwardly interacting, usually under the influence of alcohol ingested more liberally than would ordinarily be the case (because someone else is buying), trying to make nice and touch all necessary bases while wearing their best (and least comfortable clothing) in a room that is too hot or too cold (or both, depending on your current blood alcohol/sugar level), with wretched acoustics compounded by the din of everyone shout/talking at once and just when you think it can't get any worse, the band starts to play!

Hilarious. Every word the gospel truth.

**Stevebol** · 04-23-2018, 12:49 AM

If you go to school for music they're not going to tell you a two-class society exists for musicians but it does.

**basscadet** · 05-01-2018, 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by Stevebol

If you go to school for music they're not going to tell you a two-class society exists for musicians but it does.

the number one thing i learned living in a music city: don't forget to have rich parents.

i can't tell what's more artisocratic/privileged: a half million dollars spent on 'jazz school' or normalizing a YouTube/wedding band career after the half mill. education... then again, i am probably just bitter b/c i couldn't swing the expense of a college music education here in the US.

i like adam's videos though; he's super articulate and thoughtful, his original music is pretty cool too...

**Alter** · 05-01-2018, 04:05 AM

Playing these types of gigs on the side hasn't been that bad for me. If you have a steady band, once you have the repertoire down and the band is ready, you can do a lot of gigs in town without the hassle of traveling. Play a couple of evenings a week, it 's a salary by itself. But then again i live in greece, where things are more relaxed. Meaning you go to the gig 1-2 hours early not half a day

. Same with TV or studio stuff which say in the states would take all day! And i also like the music if the band is good

**basscadet** · 05-01-2018, 04:39 AM

In retrospect, I didn't mean to sound so shitty about wedding gigs, I just hate weddings. It seems the wedding/event thing can actually be downright lucrative for some here, even. If someone enjoys that and it puts food on the table, I am definitely not trying to knock it.

**Stevebol** · 05-01-2018, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by basscadet

the number one thing i learned living in a music city: don't forget to have rich parents.

i can't tell what's more artisocratic/privileged: a half million dollars spent on 'jazz school' or normalizing a YouTube/wedding band career after the half mill. education... then again, i am probably just bitter b/c i couldn't swing the expense of a college music education here in the US.

i like adam's videos though; he's super articulate and thoughtful, his original music is pretty cool too...

Adam is a good musician. His band the Metropolitan Players is one of the better Top 40 bands I've heard.
Me..
I'm going to China;