Small Ensemble advice

[olliehalsall]

So,a few months back I joined a small informal local music group. It consists of the leader/organiser who herself plays clarinet, anything from one to three sax players, a percussionist and latterly, me on acoustic guitar. Nobody there is a virtuoso, and the sheet music selection is pretty inoffensive, ranging from sixties pop to tv themes. I was musing on the possibility of maybe introducing some jazz standards into this set up? Just looking for some advice on music chart resources written for small four to five part ensembles of this sort. I'm guessing most of the jazz charts would include keyboards but as yet we don't have that instrument.

[pamosmusic]

So,a few months back I joined a small informal local music group. It consists of the leader/organiser who herself plays clarinet, anything from one to three sax players, a percussionist and latterly, me on acoustic guitar. Nobody there is a virtuoso, and the sheet music selection is pretty inoffensive, ranging from sixties pop to tv themes. I was musing on the possibility of maybe introducing some jazz standards into this set up? Just looking for some advice on music chart resources written for small four to five part ensembles of this sort. I'm guessing most of the jazz charts would include keyboards but as yet we don't have that instrument.

Some of them might be expensive but you can look on JW Pepper and Hal Leonard for what are called "flex" arrangements.

That would be arrangements with usually three parts and each person gets music, in their key, for all three parts. So you just say "Tom and Louis on part one, Jeanine on part two, I'll take part three" or whatever and then you just go. If it doesn't work you can swap Tom and Jeanine or whathaveyou. Usually made for teaching situations where you might not have the same instrumentation from day to day, but many are very good.

[olliehalsall]

Some of them might be expensive but you can look on JW Pepper and Hal Leonard for what are called "flex" arrangements.

That would be arrangements with usually three parts and each person gets music, in their key, for all three parts. So you just say "Tom and Louis on part one, Jeanine on part two, I'll take part three" or whatever and then you just go. If it doesn't work you can swap Tom and Jeanine or whathaveyou. Usually made for teaching situations where you might not have the same instrumentation from day to day, but many are very good.

Thanks I'll take a look on there

[AllanAllen]

You can write your own.

pull out a lead sheet, you play the chords, percussion can take care of themselves.

Horn 1: melody

Then you harmonize the other horns something like

Horn 2: 3rd of chord
Horn 3: 6th or 7th
Horn 4: 9th or 13th

Structure will be melody, solo with no backing, solo with backing, melody.

This will be a very sweet arrangement (think cornier than Lawrence Welk) but still, a lot of fun.

I’ve found horn players aren’t like us, they can’t just look at a lead sheet and fill chorus after chorus.

Might even be worth it to buy one of those arrangements pamosmusic suggested and copy what they do to other tunes.

Also check out this free ebook which has chords in concert pitch at the top and melody in Bb at the bottom specifically made for your kind of jam.

https://cjam.lassecollin.se/neworleansjambook.pdf

or just fire all the other horns and play as a trio.

[rpjazzguitar]

I played in a band which had a three horn book for when somebody didn't show up. There were supposed to be four horns.

The band started with the Blues And The Abstract Truth book, which has four horns for six tunes. Not cheap, but good arrangements.

The major sheet music suppliers have this sort of thing.

[olliehalsall]

You can write your own.

pull out a lead sheet, you play the chords, percussion can take care of themselves.

Horn 1: melody

Then you harmonize the other horns something like

Horn 2: 3rd of chord
Horn 3: 6th or 7th
Horn 4: 9th or 13th

Structure will be melody, solo with no backing, solo with backing, melody.

This will be a very sweet arrangement (think cornier than Lawrence Welk) but still, a lot of fun.

I’ve found horn players aren’t like us, they can’t just look at a lead sheet and fill chorus after chorus.

Might even be worth it to buy one of those arrangements pamosmusic suggested and copy what they do to other tunes.

Also check out this free ebook which has chords in concert pitch at the top and melody in Bb at the bottom specifically made for your kind of jam.

https://cjam.lassecollin.se/neworleansjambook.pdf

or just fire all the other horns and play as a trio.

Thanks. That ebook looks really useful, especially with a lineup that is occasionally quite clarinet heavy like we were last night. Very awkward without another harmonic instrument for reference.

[orri]

I'm guessing most of the jazz charts would include keyboards but as yet we don't have that instrument.

I think you probably want a bass player before you want a piano/keyboard.

A horn section and piano/keyboard both limit what you can do as a guitarist (but it also reduces your "responsibility").
If you are playing well arranged music where everyone has a written out part it's less of an issue but some jazz arrangements just have one "rhythm section" part, or a guitar part that feels like a second thought.

[garybaldy]

It may have been mentioned but if you write out parts, certain instruments need transposing.

[Jonah]

Hal Leonard has Jazz Ensemble Library series. You can check it. It looks like it is more for a big band but you can use it and adjust for a smaller group, in a big band they also double often.

Jazz Ensemble Library | Hal Leonard


I think also some dixiland music might fit and there is also more freedom for polyphonic improvisation.

As you do not have piano or bass... so I guess the guitar sits purely on 4/4 rhythm? Otherwise it would fall apart.
Then if you add some parts similar to those in Hal Leonard arrangements (there are youtube video samples you can check), it should work

[AllanAllen]

Oh yeah, OP totally check out SwingYouCats on youtube for repertoire ideas, it's almost exclusively small group jazz.

[olliehalsall]

Hal Leonard has Jazz Ensemble Library series. You can check it. It looks like it is more for a big band but you can use it and adjust for a smaller group, in a big band they also double often.

Jazz Ensemble Library | Hal Leonard


I think also some dixiland music might fit and there is also more freedom for polyphonic improvisation.

As you do not have piano or bass... so I guess the guitar sits purely on 4/4 rhythm? Otherwise it would fall apart.
Then if you add some parts similar to those in Hal Leonard arrangements (there are youtube video samples you can check), it should work

Thanks for that. Yeah, most definitely more trad type jazz for this kind of set up. I don't think Weather Report would go down very well

Regards 4/4 to the floor stompin rhythm the nearest we get to that at the moment is Glen Miller's 'In The Mood'.

[AllanAllen]

Steady 4/4 isn’t all In The Mood stomp. You need to listen to more jazz.

[pauln]

Just out of curiosity...

Hello! How can I help you today?


Can existing AI systems convert sheet music scores so that multiple parts are transposed for the various transposing instruments? If not, can you indicate non-AI systems that do so?


assistant avatar
Yes, there are existing AI systems and software that can help convert sheet music scores for various transposing instruments, though the technology is still evolving. Some AI tools can analyze music and automatically transpose parts, often with varying degrees of accuracy and usability.


However, there are also non-AI systems that have been traditionally used for transposing music. Here are a few popular non-AI software options that can assist you in transposing sheet music for different instruments:


Finale: This music notation software allows you to easily transpose parts for various instruments. You can select a specific staff and change its key signature and transposition settings.


Sibelius: Similar to Finale, Sibelius is a powerful notation tool that includes an easy way to transpose parts for transposing instruments.


MuseScore: This is a free and open-source notation program that also provides features for transposing individual parts based on the instrument's requirements.


Noteflight: An online music notation program that allows users to transpose music easily by selecting the desired instrument and adjusting the score accordingly.


SmartScore: This scanning software can interpret printed music and has options for transposing as well.


While the above options do not utilize AI in the same way emerging technologies might, they are well-established tools in the music community for handling transposition effectively. If you're interested in more advanced AI-driven tools, keep an eye on developments from companies focusing on music technology, as they may soon expand their offerings to include more robust transposition features.

[olliehalsall]

Just out of curiosity...

Hello! How can I help you today?


Can existing AI systems convert sheet music scores so that multiple parts are transposed for the various transposing instruments? If not, can you indicate non-AI systems that do so?


assistant avatar
Yes, there are existing AI systems and software that can help convert sheet music scores for various transposing instruments, though the technology is still evolving. Some AI tools can analyze music and automatically transpose parts, often with varying degrees of accuracy and usability.


However, there are also non-AI systems that have been traditionally used for transposing music. Here are a few popular non-AI software options that can assist you in transposing sheet music for different instruments:


Finale: This music notation software allows you to easily transpose parts for various instruments. You can select a specific staff and change its key signature and transposition settings.


Sibelius: Similar to Finale, Sibelius is a powerful notation tool that includes an easy way to transpose parts for transposing instruments.


MuseScore: This is a free and open-source notation program that also provides features for transposing individual parts based on the instrument's requirements.


Noteflight: An online music notation program that allows users to transpose music easily by selecting the desired instrument and adjusting the score accordingly.


SmartScore: This scanning software can interpret printed music and has options for transposing as well.


While the above options do not utilize AI in the same way emerging technologies might, they are well-established tools in the music community for handling transposition effectively. If you're interested in more advanced AI-driven tools, keep an eye on developments from companies focusing on music technology, as they may soon expand their offerings to include more robust transposition features.

Thank's i'll look into those. I've messed about on MuseScore but I can see something like that coming into it's own and proving really useful right now.