Picking technique for FAST speed

[bluewaterpig]

So I'm trying to really, really build my speed to the "burning" caliber. I've noticed that a lot of players use a technique where they angle their pick to make their contact with the string feel a little bit smoother.

I've always just picked at a straight 90 degree angle, where the pick hits the string completely flat.

Has anybody changed their picking technique to employ the angle approach? I'm wondering if this is something that most players do and I should just get used to it.

Also, any tips/tricks for building speed would be great.

[bluewaterpig]

Here's a good example of an angled picking attack. I'd love to have these chops...

YouTube Video

[metalmike31216]

When I play fast I keep my pick at a 90 degree angle. It has never hindered me in the slightest. Here is a video of me playing a Vinnie Moore tune a few years ago(not even close to jazz, I know). I'm the blond with the long hair.
Morning Star(Vinnie Moore cover) - YouTube

[Sandor]

For me the angle has more to do with tone than speed. It probably depends on the size and shape of pick though. Also, having the pick slightly angled is more comfortable for my hand, maybe other angle players feel the same way.

[bobby d]

This is a great read on picking techniques. Tuck really studied different players before writing this. All this info can cause even more confusion, but may help one to find what's best for them.

Tuck & Patti: Pick & Fingerstyle Techniques

[brwnhornet59]

When I play a fast staccato and palm muting I always angled my pick to allow for cleaner and faster technique. But of late I am keeping my elbow and forearm lower and parallel with the neck like and holding my pick like you see in Benson, Bailey or Metheny picking. I am noticing, though a little awkward but not bad, I get a much easier transition when playing lines between low and high strings etc... So I am experimenting with what sounds and feels best with the least amount of discomfort and movement depending on what i am playing.

I tend to use at least a medium or heavier pick, just not too thick. I am also noticing, where I never did before, that once the point is gone it becomes a little more unwieldy, so I break out a new one, problem solved.

[JakeAcci]

Jack has books out, might as well get one if you're a fan.

I alternate pick a lot and I think a lot about different musical scenarios in extreme detail and what kind of picking they might require. So, in some scenarios an angles pick helps my go faster, in some scenarios it does not. It also depends a lot on how you grip the pick.

For me, picking quickly on one string is easier with an angled pick. Doing, let's say, a downstroke on the A string then an upstroke on the D string then a downstroke on the G string, is much easier for me with an even-angled pick.

The pick angle is far, far from a holy grail though. Fep made a post about picking grips recently and I contributed as well as made a video talking about some of my views on some specific subjects relating to picking speed. I've thought about the issue a lot and talked to a lot of different people, and have some mild success in some weird ways.

[fumblefingers]

Originally Posted by bluewaterpig

So I'm trying to really, really build my speed to the "burning" caliber. I've noticed that a lot of players use a technique where they angle their pick to make their contact with the string feel a little bit smoother.

I've always just picked at a straight 90 degree angle, where the pick hits the string completely flat.

Has anybody changed their picking technique to employ the angle approach? I'm wondering if this is something that most players do and I should just get used to it.

Also, any tips/tricks for building speed would be great.

if the pick hits the string flat is that a 90 degree angle or a 0 degree angle?

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

if the pick hits the string flat is that a 90 degree angle or a 0 degree angle?

If you turn the pick over is it a 270 degree?
David

[JakeAcci]

I once met a beautiful woman who could sing like an angle

[bobby d]

With the pick flat on the string, turn it clockwise 45-90 degrees. The pick will now be on the left side of your index finger instead of on the back side.

If you want to do circle picking, you have to use this angle.

As far as picking speed goes, there are guitarists using either technique that are fast. I tend to re-position the pick flat when more speed is the goal.

[princeplanet]

what tempo playing 8ths do you guys consider fast? 300? 360??

[Bailz]

I used to practice beat subdivisions, everything from semibreves to 32's witha metronome mega slowly at first with a metronome. usually just playing 3rds, 4ths or even just playing over some changes but sticking strictly to whatever subdivision Im on. e.g one bar each of the minims, minim triplets, crotchets, crotchet triplets etc. After doing this until im comfortable I try and improvise over a standard with a lot of different things happening. It doesnt have to be fast, something like virgo by wayne shorter was good for me. I just keep working up and up on the metronome and try not to jump ahead of myself too much. I generally do this with any ideas Ive got. Im currently trying to play without a plectrum and get a nice smooth legato sound so the metronome is on 1 bpm at the mo!

[JakeAcci]

if we're talking about picking long consistent 8th notes cleanly and actually making clear lines, I think of 250 as pretty fast to be able to do and not sound forced, that's just me.

On the other side of it though, "uptempo" jazz is at minimum like 260 or so, with 300ish being a standard in my mind at least.

So, 250=fast and hard, 300=effortless goal. Which I guess makes something like 350 the goal, so that 300 can be executed without too much strain.

[fumblefingers]

Originally Posted by bobby d

With the pick flat on the string, turn it clockwise 45-90 degrees. The pick will now be on the left side of your index finger instead of on the back side.

If you want to do circle picking, you have to use this angle.

As far as picking speed goes, there are guitarists using either technique that are fast. I tend to re-position the pick flat when more speed is the goal.

this 90 degrees business doesn't add up.

if you start flat against the string and turn it clockwise 90 degrees, the only thing that can touch the string is the side edge of the pick.

45 degrees would be an extreme angle to strike the string with.

[bobby d]

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

this 90 degrees business doesn't add up.

if you start flat against the string and turn it clockwise 90 degrees, the only thing that can touch the string is the side edge of the pick.

45 degrees would be an extreme angle to strike the string with.

Yeah, 90 is a little too much! Around 45 is best. Just be open to trying different angles to find what feels good to you. Another approach is to attempt to play a lick or scale faster than know you can play it without worrying if it comes out clean. At what angle did your pick naturally end up? Was your hand in a fist or more open?

Just saying X degrees isn't enough because this a 3 dimensional situation. Photos or video would be much better than trying to explain in text.

[Double 07]

Hmmm really don't know if any way is particularly "better". When I taught I was much more concerned about proper left hand positioning than with the right hand. A fair number of students had awkward left hand positioning that I felt hindered their ability to move around the fretboard. As far as the right hand goes I think pretty much whatever feels most comfortable to you is the way to go. Assuming you're not holding your hand in some "super weird" position or anything.

I tend to hold my pick pretty much parallel to the strings, that just feels comfortable for me. I also am a big fan of alternate picking technique for speed. It's just the fastest way (shortest distance between two points thing). Although having good dynamics is in my view more important than strictly sticking to one non-flexible style of plucking the strings. Ex. using slides, slurs, hammer-ons and pull-offs, sweeps, legato phrasing, staccato phrasing, playing some notes louder or softer within a phrase. Yes even using consecutive up-strokes or down-strokes at times if that will give the certain attack on the string I'm after. Keeping it fluid, just whatever it takes to play what you're feeling / hearing. As far as I'm concerned that stuff is more important than having to stick to one strict picking style, whether that's alternate or some other style.

A good exercise to start with to develop speed is to just pick a scale and play it forward and backwards (using alternate picking). Start slow and then slowly build up speed to the point of "blazing" lol but keeping everything clean and with clean technique. If it starts getting sloppy then slow down to where everything is clean again until you can play faster without getting sloppy. Once you get pretty comfortable you can start adding rhythm to it like practicing quarter notes, then eighth notes, sixteenths, triplets etc, then switch back and forth between them in mid stream. I also like to have just a very small amount of the pick actually sticking out from my fingers so that my fingers are actually grazing against the strings sometimes. I feel like the more you can actually feel the strings with your fingers the better.

Well there's my quick lesson on it. Good luck with your playing.

Oh and that will be $35 for this lesson HA just Joking.

[Waso]

in my opinion speed has nothing to do with the ngle of the pick. A different angle only changes the sound. Speed is achieved by practice practice and practice. Take a look at the Gypsy-Jazz-Players. They play extremely fast, eventhough they use downstrokes almost exclusively. Start practicing at slow tempi and increase after you have really mastered them, then speed will come eventually.

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by Waso

in my opinion speed has nothing to do with the ngle of the pick. A different angle only changes the sound. Speed is achieved by practice practice and practice. Take a look at the Gypsy-Jazz-Players. They play extremely fast, eventhough they use downstrokes almost exclusively. Start practicing at slow tempi and increase after you have really mastered them, then speed will come eventually.

Yeah, what he said... and then add coffee.
David

[Double 07]

Originally Posted by Waso

in my opinion speed has nothing to do with the ngle of the pick. A different angle only changes the sound. Speed is achieved by practice practice and practice. Take a look at the Gypsy-Jazz-Players. They play extremely fast, eventhough they use downstrokes almost exclusively. Start practicing at slow tempi and increase after you have really mastered them, then speed will come eventually.

Yup just hold the pick in a comfortable position for you. I keep the pick parallel to the strings because that's comfortable for me. Start slow and build up speed making sure everything is still clean when you're playing fast. If things start getting sloppy then you need to practice more at a slower speed. There's just no substitute for practice, practice, practice.

[chrisg]

When I was a kid I was a shredder and was really concerned about technique. But now i realise there is no right technique, just look at players like Steve Morse or pat metheny. Their picking styles are very unorthodox yet they are monsters. The only thing you have to worry about ismaking sure all the movement is coming from the wrist.
the formula for developing speed is quite simple. Time, patience and repetition. Just sit down with a metronome and run technique exercises for an hour a day. I find using pieces as technique exercises works best as they are more interesting. Try got a match (chick) or tumeni notes (Steve morse) for alternate picking or frankly speaking (gambale) or even some yngwie (not most peoples cup of tea but really good for some of the consistant 3 string sweep phrases) for sweeping.

[bobby d]

making sure all the movement is coming from the wrist.

I would possibly include the elbow as some fast pickers do i.e. McGlaughlin. Not to mention some are quite fast using circle picking which involves the joints in the thumb and finger.

Howard Roberts suggests using it all, the elbow, wrist and finger joints. I think using the wrist only is limiting.

Al Dimeola suggests practicing scales using all downstrokes, then using upstrokes, and finally alternate picking. His key to getting fast

For me, the angle of the pick makes a big difference. But I think it's something each player has to feel for themself.

[Richb]

Originally Posted by bobby d

I would possibly include the elbow as some fast pickers do i.e. McGlaughlin. Not to mention some are quite fast using circle picking which involves the joints in the thumb and finger.

Howard Roberts suggests using it all, the elbow, wrist and finger joints. I think using the wrist only is limiting.

Al Dimeola suggests practicing scales using all downstrokes, then using upstrokes, and finally alternate picking. His key to getting fast

For me, the angle of the pick makes a big difference. But I think it's something each player has to feel for themself.

Just want to correct some misinformation:

1. McLaughlin uses absolutely ZERO elbow motion. He is practically THE poster boy for wrist picking w/ heel of hand anchored on bridge.

2. DiMeola uses the same approach as McLaughlin. Wrist picking w/ heel of hand on bridge.

[fumblefingers]

Originally Posted by Richb

Just want to correct some misinformation:

1. McLaughlin uses absolutely ZERO elbow motion. He is practically THE poster boy for wrist picking w/ heel of hand anchored on bridge.

2. DiMeola uses the same approach as McLaughlin. Wrist picking w/ heel of hand on bridge.

i haven't seen Al play up close since '80, but i can corroborate what you state here. that is, I observed both players' right hand positioning from the fifth row (when they were on tour together with Paco of course). it made an indelible impression on me at the time.

[bobby d]

Looks like I was misinformed lol. It's in the wrist! Thanks

[Fred2746]

For me the angle has more to do with tone than speed. It probably depends on the size and shape of pick though. Also, having the pick slightly angled is more comfortable for my hand, maybe other angle players feel the same way.

[nion]

check out Adam Rogers. In my opinion, he's got the best combination of technique and sound at VERY fast tempos.

[Arpeggio]

I'm an advocate of the angle. If the pick were held flat to the string then either you need to go further before the string pings off it, or tilt the pick down towards the floor for upward picks and up towards the ceiling for downward picks for the string to roll off (far too much excess movement for the hand / fingers), or use a miniscule area at the tip of the pick.

Tilting the pick forward a bit, around 20 degrees. This way the string can slip off the curved / pointed edge of the tip of the pick, and not need to move within your grip making for minimal movement. Not Jazz but as you can see from this clip he tilts his pick forwards (while the camera angle is below the guitar)...

Yngwie J. Malmsteen - Right Hand Technique - YouTube

[Double 07]

Originally Posted by Arpeggio

I'm an advocate of the angle. If the pick were held flat to the string then either you need to go further before the string pings off it, or tilt the pick down towards the floor for upward picks and up towards the ceiling for downward picks for the string to roll off (far too much excess movement for the hand / fingers), or use a miniscule area at the tip of the pick.

Tilting the pick forward a bit, around 20 degrees. This way the string can slip off the curved / pointed edge of the tip of the pick, and not need to move within your grip making for minimal movement. Not Jazz but as you can see from this clip he tilts his pick forwards (while the camera angle is below the guitar)...

Yngwie J. Malmsteen - Right Hand Technique - YouTube

Yeah there's really some solid reasoning behind that. If it's comfortable for you to hold thew pick that way, what the heck?

[oldskoolchop]

i have been paying attention to my angle here lately mostly for tone not speed (for i have given up on speed, i dont have it), but i have noticed that i do have a slight angle and on a down stroke i hit one edge and on the up stroke i hit the other, so the wear on the picks are caddy corner not one the same half of the the pic if you can envision that, has anyone else noticed this with there stroke of the pick