Melodic Minor Masters

[musicjohnny]

Have been studying this scale for months now, and I am absolutely in love with the peculiar yet beautiful sounds that one can get out of this scale. I was wondering if any of you guys could point me to any of the greats that are particularly known for using the Melodic Minor often. Artists, albums, or specific songs are all fair game, just looking to hear some of the greats use it.
I know that Wes uses it often and very soulfully too, how 'bout some horn players though?

[kris]

Great scale.
Sometimes called "jazz scale".
Every guitrist use it/ minor chords, dominants etc/.
John Scofield like it very much.
Barry Galbraith wrote a book "Daily Exercises in the Melodic & Harmonic minor modes".Nice book.

[lkmuller]

I'm sure every true jazz player incorporates the "Jazz Minor" as it's called at Berklee into their playing. There are some excellent threads here about tri tone subs that address different ways of applying this scale.

[JonnyPac]

Bill Evans music. He slips it in very often. Wayne Shorter on Blue Note too.

Also check out Nica's Dream by Horace Silver or the Jazz Messengers. It's got them in your face. Great tune. Wes does a sweet version on youtube.

[musicjohnny]

Awesome, thanks alot guys.

I tried finding that thread that you mentioned muller but to no avail, thanks for the tips guys. Looking into Nica's Dream as we speak!

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Note that with Nica's Dream, JonnyPac was probably referring to the start of the tune, with the alternating minor (major 7) chords. There are two other common places you use (modes of) the jazz minor scale:

* Over a non-resolving 7th chord -- for example, D jazz minor over G7.
* Over a resolving 7th or altered 7th chord -- for example , Ab jazz minor over G7alt.

[jseaberry]

John Stowell has a huge amount of material specifically on this scale.

[Stackabones]

Originally Posted by jseaberry

John Stowell has a huge amount of material specifically on this scale.

Got link?

[jseaberry]

I did not know he was hard to find, but here's a start.
Mike's Master Classes - John Stowell

Jazz Guitar Lessons - Modern Chord Melody - John Stowell

Jazz Guitar Lessons - Modern Jazz Improvisation - John Stowell

John Stowell - jazz guitar

He is also on Facebook. I trust you can find him on there.

[jseaberry]

I also recommend joining this group. In the file archive are 2 transcriptions of John Stowell, one is his version of "Prelude To A Kiss" and the ogher is from a video seminar he did for Portland Podcasts. They are both PDFs, and you have to join the club to get access to the file archive, but it is WELL WORTH IT!!!! A TON of good material there!

[jseaberry]

Haha!! "Got link?" Duh...no!! Here:
jazz_guitar : Jazz Guitar Group
Wotta doofus I am!!

[Stackabones]

Sweet! Thanks!

[jseaberry]

Why sure, Pal! I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend the Truefire one on Modern Jazz Improvisation. There is a lot of sheet music with the videos for slow learners like me to ruminate over much later. The Mike's classes are different from the Truefire ones, are all phenomenal videos, but there is no written additions. Your choice. I have them all, plus John and I have been corresponding by email for about 5 years, and he is a wonderful, friendly, and helpful guy. If you don't understand a concept, just write him.

[jseaberry]

Right now, I'm listening to a CD he sent me of an unedited concert he did in some guys house for a private party........whoa..... He USES the stuff he talks about.

[Stackabones]

Cool.

[Meggy]

The late, great Emily Remler was a big advocate of using the melodic minor to play over dominant chords - up a half step if they resolve V to I, or up a 5th if they don't resolve. She talked about it on one of her educational videos (can be found on YouTube). She was influenced by Wes Montgomery a lot - and he certainly was another user of the MM, although he may not have thought of things in those terms I guess.

[musicjohnny]

Sweet, thanks alot guys.

I'm aware of how to use the Melodic minor over different situations as far as dominant chords go. Do you guys have any tips on how to spice up my playing over minor chords using the melodic minor? I just can't seem to get any good sounds saying the second mode, the Dorian b2, it sounds really odd to me.

[JonnyPac]

Originally Posted by musicjohnny

Sweet, thanks alot guys.

I'm aware of how to use the Melodic minor over different situations as far as dominant chords go. Do you guys have any tips on how to spice up my playing over minor chords using the melodic minor? I just can't seem to get any good sounds saying the second mode, the Dorian b2, it sounds really odd to me.

Think of it as Phrygian Natural 6th. It goes with Phrygain exotic chords. It resolves like a minor plagal cadence. E Phrygain Nat 6th resolves to A major. It sounds like Dm6/E to A. That about it really. It's the least common MM mode, IMHO. Hope that helps. I could go on all day. I'm a MM junkie.

[lkmuller]

Originally Posted by musicjohnny

Sweet, thanks alot guys.

I'm aware of how to use the Melodic minor over different situations as far as dominant chords go. Do you guys have any tips on how to spice up my playing over minor chords using the melodic minor? I just can't seem to get any good sounds saying the second mode, the Dorian b2, it sounds really odd to me.

I've found it pleasing to my ear when I use it over a IVm chord. Ex: In a progression C - C7 - F - Fm, the F jazz minor works well over the Fm.

[JonnyPac]

Originally Posted by lkmuller

I've found it pleasing to my ear when I use it over a IVm chord. Ex: In a progression C - C7 - F - Fm, the F jazz minor works well over the Fm.

I always use that same example as the "gateway" to melodic minor for new students. Well said. It is the most "inside" ivm chord-scale, IMHO.

On the same note, G Phrygian Nat 6th (2nd mode) can sub for the Fm. It's just Fm/G in MM. There are others too. Bb7+11 (4th mode) is nice instead of Fm. MM is one big invertible chord, really. (Except for Mixolydian b13)

[JonnyPac]

I just figured out Serene by Eric Dolphy. It has tons of cool MM changes! It's a slow 12 blues with neat alterations... Check out the version on Far Cry (grooveshark will have it). Here's the chords (I posted the parent MM scale after each modal chord symbol). Enjoy!

Ebmaj13 | Ab13+11(EbMM)| Db13+11(AbMM)| Eb13 / Bbm7 Eb13 |
Ab13+11(EbMM)| D7alt(EbMM) | Ebmaj13 | Dbm9 Gb13+11(DbMM) |
Fm7b5(nat9)(AbMM)| Bb7b9+11 / Bm7 E13+11(BMM)| Ab13+11(EbMM)| Ab13+11 :||

[Meggy]

I quite like the sound of the MM played over minor 7th chords in a 2-5-1. Strangely, the major 7th in the scale works OK, despite the minor 7th in the chord (to my ears at least!) - well quite often anyway, giving a specific flavor which I rather like.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Originally Posted by Meggy

I quite like the sound of the MM played over minor 7th chords in a 2-5-1. Strangely, the major 7th in the scale works OK, despite the minor 7th in the chord (to my ears at least!) - well quite often anyway, giving a specific flavor which I rather like.

I like that, too, although I may treat the major seventh note as a passing tone, even it is not immediately resolved. Example: this lick I posted to the "licktionary" thread. The note in question is the Gb (I know, I know) over the Gmin7:



(I see that line hitting A-G-Gb-F-E ...)

[JonnyPac]

Tenor Madness and Groovin' High use the nat7 as a passing line to the b7 and 3rd of the dom. Good licks, but not really MM all the way.

Listen to the main riff on Bill Evan's Summertime for really cool MM I and IV modes acting like a ii V.

[Aristotle]

I don't think I have seen the Stowell stuff linked by jseaberry. Of what I have seen, the Coryell intro is the best. He applies the melodic minor first as a straight tonic minor, and then applies it to Stella by Starlight using half-step-above logic.

YouTube Video

[JonnyPac]

Hmmm... not diggin' the Bb MM over Em7b5 as he says. It puts bad notes in play. It only fits the A7ALT IMHO. He also does the same on the other similar sections. Using G MM over Em7b5 is better and more common. 4 beats is one hell of an anticipation, if that's the idea.

BTW the last 15 or so seconds of PT 2 are priceless advice.

[wolflen]

miles...kind of blue..melodic minor paradise...blue in green (evens tune...though miles has credit also) is one of the best in capturing "mood" - late fall afternoon..cloudy and damp..downtown new york on a very less traveled street..

all the solos over it just reinforce the mood...

play well

wolf

[Meggy]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

I like that, too, although I may treat the major seventh note as a passing tone, even it is not immediately resolved. Example: this lick I posted to the "licktionary" thread. The note in question is the Gb (I know, I know) over the Gmin7:



(I see that line hitting A-G-Gb-F-E ...)

Cheers for pointing out your nice line BigD - somehow I missed that one when first posted. I also hear the maj 7th in some Pat Martino lines, for example the ones given in the "Linear Expressions" book, which seem to mix Dorian and MM - I imagine you will already be well aware of this stuff though!

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

As Mr B says, Pat Martino can make some ideas work just because he's a speed demon. In fact, I think if you playing very inside and diatonic, fast lines sound too vanilla.

[Meggy]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

As Mr B says, Pat Martino can make some ideas work just because he's a speed demon. In fact, I think if you playing very inside and diatonic, fast lines sound too vanilla.

I know what you mean about the vanilla - in a way it seems to get worse sometimes when playing relatively slowly, let alone the faster stuff! But I do find Mr Martino's approach very interesting - his whole "convert to minor" way of thinking in particular. From the Linear Expressions book, it seems that he does not need, or even want, to worry about different types of minor scale. As long as you convert to something minor, it will work anyway! For example, he gives 5 positions of Aeolian minor, then example lines which mix Dorian and MM passages, as I said before! Maybe I do need to up the old speed a bit to really make this stuff work...