No Possibility of Nails

[JimmyK]

After several attempts at growing nails, I realized this was a futile effort. I even bought these plastic nails that you slip on your fingers. I'm sure their great for some, but alas, not for me. My question is does anyone have some tips for playing with the fleshy part of fingers only and..how successful have you been.

Thanks,

JimmyK

[randalljazz]

bigger pool to ask from here:

Classical Guitar • View forum - Public Space

[tonedeaf]

I use a cream I get at Walmart called "Hard as Hoofs". I takes a little while but it did make my nails a little stronger and more resilient.

[whatswisdom]

Latest issue of Acoustic Guitar has a feature on Metheny. He endorses some new product for nail care.

[fumblefingers]

do NOT trim them - file and sand them. this will make them more resilient.

and oh yeah, don't use them on steel strings.

[JohnW400]

First , I know very little about nail care or proper classical technique. I have however been working on classical and nylon string jazz for a while now.

I have found it easier to not let them get too long. Jut to the point where you see them over the pads of the fingers. I also file the sides down to keep them from getting caught on something (like cloth) and ripped. This works for me.

I though I read that Tarrega used his fingertips, no nails.

[whatswisdom]

Originally Posted by JohnW400

I have found it easier to not let them get too long.

Right. Every time I let mine grow long they break. Just the bear minimum to make clean contact with the string works best. Keep a good nail file with you at all times and make sure they're totally smooth...

[JimmyK]

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I have used Nail Tek unsuccessfully, but I'll give the Hard as Hooves a try; and not trimming but sanding may be a better idea.

[JakeAcci]

Is the problem that you bite them?

[Patriots2006]

Use a nail file and then sand them with 1500 grit sand paper. Fold the sand paper around the nail file. The sanding will take away the brittle sound you get after filing your nails. It smooths them out. You can get the sandpaper at an auto parts store. And as others suggested, just grow them long enough to where you can see them above your finger tips. I also round the side of the nail that makes contact with the strings. If I don't, sometimes I get caught in the strings.

[WhoisLevang]

I would like to add to this discussion; Jimmy- There is one substance that will make your nails stronger. It's biotin. It's in peanut butter, liver and other foods. The easiest way I found to get it was to eat peanut butter on toast in the morning. It worked. Gelatin will not make your nails stronger, to my experience.

What Vitamins Help Your Fingernails Grow? | eHow.com

I took about a year of classical tutelage and had the same problem at first.
ATB!
Randy

edit- As others have said, do not "clip" or cut your nails on your plucking hand. File and polish with tri-mite or other fine sand paper, 600 to 1000 grit.

[ronjazz]

Gelatin doesn't make your nails stronger, but it does make them less brittle, thus less susceptible to breaking and splitting.

[Gitarguy]

Good nails is more than just growing them. You need to learn to shape them and how to care for the edges. No nail clippers; fine emery boards and sandpaper only. The edge of your nail should be smooth as glass. No superglue for fake nails either. Superglue has its uses, but not for fake nails: every time a fake nail comes off, it takes a layer of your nail with it, making it thinner.

Pumping Nylon has a good section on nails, but it has to do with experience as well. Very likely, each fingernail will need to be a different shape. This comes over time and with use. It's not easy for everyone, so don't give up too soon.

Also, we damage our nails far more often than we realize. This is also something we have to learn; to be careful with our hands. The zippers on your jeans are likely one of the biggest culprits.

As far as length goes, I tend to leave mine a bit long, so that there's plenty left for regular (daily) touch-ups of the edges, and adjustments to the shape.

Repair is another topic, and I have lots of experience there, too.

[Chris Cline]

New guy here. I'd like to redirect the thread to what may have been the original question: what if you can't have nails (I double on electric bass)? I think fingertips work, but what tips do you have for clear tonal production without nails?

If I've missed the point, I apologize. Thanks!

[JimmyK]

Hi Chris, I also play the electric bass with fingertips. Perhaps this is the answer!! Make the fingertips work on the nylon string.

[Gitarguy]

Originally Posted by Chris Cline

New guy here. I'd like to redirect the thread to what may have been the original question: what if you can't have nails (I double on electric bass)? I think fingertips work, but what tips do you have for clear tonal production without nails?

If I've missed the point, I apologize. Thanks!

You can't.

The fingernails are what produce that distinctive tone. Without fingernails or a substitute like fingerpicks, you are not going to get the same sound. With just fingertips, you will get a different sound. That doesn't mean it can't be a clean tone; that's within your particular technique.

If you're absolutely unwilling to use fingerpicks or invest the work into maintaining nails, then I suggest you study the lute.

[JazzReggie]

You can play classical guitar just fine without nails, just as you can play jazz without a traditional jazz box. That said, nails will affect your tone, just as a jazz box will, and while you can get fantastic results without either, they won't be exactly the same. This isn't a right or wrong issue, it's more a personal preference thing.

For some thoughts and advice on playing without nails:

Guitarmania: Learn To Play Classical Guitar Without Nails

The majority of classical guitarists do play with nails now, but not all of them, and it wasn't always like this either. For a bit of history:

How to care of your fingernails for guitar playing

If you want to play classical guitar, don't feel that you absolutely need to grow nails. Try it without, and let your own ears and fingers decide!

[TruthHertz]

Are you familiar with John Abercrombie? He uses fingers, no nails. Mick Goodrick also experimented with fingerstyle with no nails, though now I believe he keeps short nails that give a combination of flesh and nail.
Both of them use light gauge steel with electric guitars though, not exactly Pat Martino or Joe Pass.
David

[JimmyK]

This is why I love this forum; a myriad of suggestions. In reading all of the above and links, it seems that my tendency in moving towards no nails is based on the sounds of the chord melody I've been playing on a Gibson 335 and Polytone amp, circa 1978. About a year ago I played a Godin CW Hybrid and liked the nylon sound so much, I bought it and have been struggling with the nails no nails issue ever since. However, after reading the History Link on Reggie's post above and other comments, probably will stick with the no nails for awhile. Besides I have plenty of finger tension on this new instrument/genre and need time to work on my patience..
Best Regards to all.....

[Hypno]

Originally Posted by Gitarguy

Superglue has its uses, but not for fake nails: every time a fake nail comes off, it takes a layer of your nail with it, making it thinner.

I found that out; in a pinch I started using the fakes and it seemed to make the nails thin. It’s a slippery slope. Then I used a nail hardener, that has worked better and has even held a cracked one together as it grows.

[Archtop Bill]

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

Are you familiar with John Abercrombie? He uses fingers, no nails. Mick Goodrick also experimented with fingerstyle with no nails, though now I believe he keeps short nails that give a combination of flesh and nail.
....

Many classical guitarists use a combination of nail and flesh. If the guitarist just uses long nails, the result is usually clicky sounding. In the Segovia Technique, Vladimir Bobri explains how The Maestro created his smooth full sounds with the combination of shaped, smooth fingernails and the fleshy fingertip.

Pay no attention to the photographs in that book, they are misleading.

[JimBobWay]

I'll never forget when I first started playing classical guitar, I read Segovia's bio and he basically said if you don't have good nails, forget it. I thought that was pretty arrogant especially since so many other guitarists excelled without using nails. But the old guy was so good I had to forgive him.

These days with the advances in technology it is not as big a deal. I personally like the option of a little nail, but I keep them short. I know a lot of great players who chew their nails and still play better than some with perfect hooves. And many of my favorite guitarists have some sort of hybrid approach going on - Joe Pass always had a pick between his teeth when he was playing fingerstyle, for example, and John McLaughlin uses a pick and his a+m fingers, just to name 2.

If you really want the nail sound and can't grow a set properly, try Pro-pick, I found these in Acoustic Guitar mag and they are very nice, they don't 'get in the way' (my feeling) like other fingerpicks. I use them when I need a little more volume acoustically, and sometimes for steel string fingerpicking.

ProPik® | Finger-Tone®

And as someone else mentioned earlier, Metheny struggled with his nails when he started playing bari a lot, and found this guy, who also works with a lot of flamenco players. Looks like a diy nail salon to me...but works for Pat.

Carlos: Finest Guitar Amplification: Power Nails

I hope this helps - one way or another keep looking, and don't let this keep you from playing!

[voxwerx]

OMG- I took gelatin capsules when I was playing classical in college- my nails did get much thicker and harder! Keep in mind I was 18 at the time- and I tried to clip them one day- just narrowly avoided causing a fatality.

[mescandon]

I've been lucky enough to start taking classical guitar lessons from a very good teacher. I had concerns about my nails breaking; he told me long nails weren't necessary. I trimmed my nails just a millimetre past the finger tip. As I refine my technique, my guitar sounds better and better. It doesn't ring nearly as loud as when my teacher plays, but loud enough. I've also gotten into the habit of filing my nails every couple of days so they don't catch on anything and break.

[fumblefingers]

Originally Posted by JimBobWay

I'll never forget when I first started playing classical guitar, I read Segovia's bio and he basically said if you don't have good nails, forget it. I thought that was pretty arrogant especially since so many other guitarists excelled without using nails. But the old guy was so good I had to forgive him.

These days with the advances in technology it is not as big a deal. I personally like the option of a little nail, but I keep them short. I know a lot of great players who chew their nails and still play better than some with perfect hooves. And many of my favorite guitarists have some sort of hybrid approach going on - Joe Pass always had a pick between his teeth when he was playing fingerstyle, for example, and John McLaughlin uses a pick and his a+m fingers, just to name 2.

If you really want the nail sound and can't grow a set properly, try Pro-pick, I found these in Acoustic Guitar mag and they are very nice, they don't 'get in the way' (my feeling) like other fingerpicks. I use them when I need a little more volume acoustically, and sometimes for steel string fingerpicking.

ProPik® | Finger-Tone®

And as someone else mentioned earlier, Metheny struggled with his nails when he started playing bari a lot, and found this guy, who also works with a lot of flamenco players. Looks like a diy nail salon to me...but works for Pat.

Carlos: Finest Guitar Amplification: Power Nails

I hope this helps - one way or another keep looking, and don't let this keep you from playing!

interesting, I have never seen John McLaughlin do that, or I simply missed it. do you have a video that you can point me to? I would like to check that out.

[goinbaroke]

I played classical for years and used a product called "Onymyrrhe", don't know what is made of but brushed it on cuticle area and rubbed it in every night, my nails grew faster and were not brittle at all. Nails longer than just beyond the flesh are all thats necessary, results such as plectrums of 1.25mm or .75mm differ in picking, so longer nails give similar differences.
Dick C.

[whatswisdom]

Originally Posted by goinbaroke

I played classical for years and used a product called "Onymyrrhe"

Thanks for the recommendation, Dick. I'll give it a try. The eternal struggle...

[JimBobWay]

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

interesting, I have never seen John McLaughlin do that, or I simply missed it. do you have a video that you can point me to? I would like to check that out.

I have seen him many times, sometimes sitting just a few feet away, and he does this a lot when playing acoustic (e.g. Shakti, The Translators, Trio, etc.)
but rarely on electric. I'm not sure if there is any video showing it...but I'm going to enjoy looking for it! If I find any I'll post links.

[ten left thumbs]

Originally Posted by JazzReggie

You can play classical guitar just fine without nails, just as you can play jazz without a traditional jazz box. That said, nails will affect your tone, just as a jazz box will, and while you can get fantastic results without either, they won't be exactly the same. This isn't a right or wrong issue, it's more a personal preference thing.

For some thoughts and advice on playing without nails:

Guitarmania: Learn To Play Classical Guitar Without Nails

This article was very useful. Like some of those who left comments, I am a pianist, and I will not sacrifice good technique just to be able to play guitar. I can deal with the fact that my tone on guitar may not have the full range of expression like a 'proper' classical guitarist with nails. I can't deal with poor technique.

[Jabberwocky]

Man, that Power Nails stuff is expensive. Euro189 to start and the pot of gel is good for 6 bimonthly applications and then you pony up Euro80 for another pot.

I think I will just chow down on Jello.