Do We Need "Practical Jazz Originals"?

**lawson-stone** · 01-09-2021, 01:26 PM

I enjoy the monthly "Practical Standards" group as a way to work through the "Great American Songbook" tunes. I have also wondered if we should have a group working through the "jazz originals" that are mainstays of many jam sessions. Tunes like "All Blues," "Four," "Graveyard," (oops, GROOVEYARD) "Joy Spring," etc. I don't even know how the list would be compiled, but as a monthly exercise that could be a fun complement to the "Practical Standards" group.

What do you all think?

**grahambop** · 01-09-2021, 02:07 PM

I think it’s a great idea, I find some of the old ‘songbook’ standards can be a little uninteresting at times. There are loads of great jazz original tunes out there.

**jameslovestal** · 01-09-2021, 02:53 PM

I also agree that a focus on what I call jazz-jazz-standards (songs written by jazz musicians and for their own recording, instead of a musical, play, or the movies), by a working-group, is a great idea.

**AllanAllen** · 01-09-2021, 03:21 PM

I thought if it was in the real book it was a standard.

Everybody ready for this can of worms...

What makes a song a standard?

**mr. beaumont** · 01-09-2021, 03:32 PM

I'd be all about this.

**starjasmine** · 01-09-2021, 03:34 PM

Sounds like a great idea.

**grahambop** · 01-09-2021, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by AllanAllen

I thought if it was in the real book it was a standard.

Everybody ready for this can of worms...

What makes a song a standard?

Yes but the ‘practical standards’ thread is using a chronological list. So it probably won’t get to many of the ‘jazz originals’ for quite a while yet. The tune for this month dates from 1929.

**John A.** · 01-09-2021, 04:38 PM

As a latecomer to this thing, I didn't realize such tunes weren't included, or that tune selection was being done chronologically. I'd rather see that re-thought and just open the selection up to anything that is a standard in the sense of being part of more-ore-less standard jazz repertoire than proliferate the categories.

John

**grahambop** · 01-09-2021, 06:22 PM

Actually I don’t think the practical standards are entirely in chronological order, I seem to recall it’s based on the order of the tunes at the jazzstandards website (but excluding any tunes which have already been done in previous incarnations of the ‘practical standards’ thread - there’s a ‘sticky’ thread at the top which lists these).

I believe the jazzstandards website says it lists them in order of the number of recordings. So this does tend to prioritise the older ‘songbook’ standards, over the ‘jazz original’ tunes, which generally occur much later in the list.

At least I think that’s how it works!

**grahambop** · 01-09-2021, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Tunes like "Graveyard,"

I don’t dig that tune.

**AllanAllen** · 01-09-2021, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by grahambop

Yes but the ‘practical standards’ thread is using a chronological list. So it probably won’t get to many of the ‘jazz originals’ for quite a while yet. The tune for this month dates from 1929.

Thanks for clearing that up.

**jameslovestal** · 01-09-2021, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by grahambop

I don’t dig that tune.

Funny, but I was about to provide a serious reply (since I love the tune), but then, DUH,,,, I got the joke.

I often find the most soulful playing on an album by many of my favorite jazz musicians is on this tune. E.g. Milt and Pass.

I guess it is all in the groove.

**fep** · 01-09-2021, 11:44 PM

There was a time when Wizard would ask for song suggestions for the Practical Standards thread. Nothing is written in stone.

**grahambop** · 01-10-2021, 05:59 AM

Originally Posted by AllanAllen

Thanks for clearing that up.

I remembered it’s not quite as simple as that, see more details in post no. 9.

**andyb** · 01-10-2021, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

I enjoy the monthly "Practical Standards" group as a way to work through the "Great American Songbook" tunes. I have also wondered if we should have a group working through the "jazz originals" that are mainstays of many jam sessions. Tunes like "All Blues," "Four," "Graveyard," (oops, GROOVEYARD) "Joy Spring," etc. I don't even know how the list would be compiled, but as a monthly exercise that could be a fun complement to the "Practical Standards" group.

What do you all think?

Hi Lawson.

Are you proposing something like this?

andyb

**lawson-stone** · 01-10-2021, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by fep

There was a time when Wizard would ask for song suggestions for the Practical Standards thread. Nothing is written in stone.

At the moment it does indeed follow the tune list of the learn jazz standards website, skipping tunes we might have recently covered. This decision is fairly recent I think.

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**Lobomov** · 01-10-2021, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

At the moment it does indeed follow the tune list of the learn jazz standards website, skipping tunes we might have recently covered. This decision is fairly recent I think.

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Link to said list?

I could only find alphabetical lists

**kris** · 01-10-2021, 10:44 AM

The monthly "Practical Standards" group genaraly show how to play a head of the standards.I think more important in jazz is improvisation over chord progrsions.
It takes a lot of time be a good improviser and a good jazz player.

**grahambop** · 01-10-2021, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Lobomov

Link to said list?

I could only find alphabetical lists

Here (we are on no. 72). You also need to exclude any tunes listed in the ‘sticky’ thread at the top of this Lessons sub-forum.

Jazz Standards Songs and Instrumentals Contents

**grahambop** · 01-10-2021, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

At the moment it does indeed follow the tune list of the learn jazz standards website, skipping tunes we might have recently covered. This decision is fairly recent I think.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I believe Wiz used to spend quite a lot of time on it each month, producing a list, doing a poll, advising the results in time for the next month, he even produced lead sheets and a backing track I think! Eventually he didn’t want to continue with it, so now M-ster does it on the current basis which was agreed.

**AllanAllen** · 01-10-2021, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by kris

The monthly "Practical Standards" group genaraly show how to play a head of the standards.I think more important in jazz is improvisation over chord progrsions.
It takes a lot of time be a good improviser and a good jazz player.

I think one follows the other. Especially when you're starting out. One can romanticize that they never learned a lick or copied anything, but if you can't even play, what's the point? I use the melody of Sandu in my rock blues playing all the time. But I don't have any lofty goals of moving the genre ahead, I'm just having fun.

**kris** · 01-10-2021, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by grahambop

Here (we are on no. 72). You also need to exclude any tunes listed in the ‘sticky’ thread at the top of this Lessons sub-forum.

Jazz Standards Songs and Instrumentals Contents

Now I know why Ragman is always first...

**kris** · 01-10-2021, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by grahambop

I believe Wiz used to spend quite a lot of time on it each month, producing a list, doing a poll, advising the results in time for the next month, he even produced lead sheets and a backing track I think! Eventually he didn’t want to continue with it, so now M-ster does it on the current basis which was agreed.

Great work!

**Lobomov** · 01-10-2021, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by grahambop

Here (we are on no. 72). You also need to exclude any tunes listed in the ‘sticky’ thread at the top of this Lessons sub-forum.

Jazz Standards Songs and Instrumentals Contents

Oh .. I got Rhythm next month?

That's a big one