JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 28) - Spain

**rpjazzguitar** · 07-25-2021, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by docsteve

So I just had to grab my Flamenca for this one and put a cejilla on the second fret - this is what came out. First take, in true jam fashion. Oh, I had played the tune before.

That sounds great! Why am I wasting my time with electric guitar?

**rpjazzguitar** · 07-25-2021, 05:05 PM

Jeff, same stuff I always like about your clips. Great time feel, hip lines, overall jazzy feel and great tone.

**wzpgsr** · 07-25-2021, 06:38 PM

I think approaching this as (a) part of Autumn Leaves (b) bookended by some weird stuff (c) and played with a really fast Latin beat (d) with just a titch of overdrive to compensate for a youth that should have been spent practicing more might not be the best approach, but it's my approach. One thing is for sure—I always come away from these unfamiliar tunes *really* liking them.

**rpjazzguitar** · 07-25-2021, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by wzpgsr

I think approaching this as (a) part of Autumn Leaves (b) bookended by some weird stuff (c) and played with a really fast Latin beat (d) with just a titch of overdrive to compensate for a youth that should have been spent practicing more might not be the best approach, but it's my approach. One thing is for sure—I always come away from these unfamiliar tunes *really* liking them.

What a warm tone! Good time feel on the lines too.

**mr. beaumont** · 07-25-2021, 07:19 PM

Wzpgsr

This is a GREAT take, man. Tone, touch, nice lines, all in place.

**Triple_Jazz** · 07-25-2021, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by John A.;[URL="tel:1136368"

1136368[/URL]]Here we go ...

"fast" playing at the edge of disaster in honor of Jeff's b'day.

Editorial note: Ok, the head is actually fun to do with other live human beings, but with a backing track, no way Jose.

John A, kicking down the door, smashing the windows, and blowing the roof of this one!

**ragman1** · 07-26-2021, 04:00 AM

Hi, Jeff, hope you had a nice birthday and like your new guitar.

Re, the logicality of the chords, well, they're certainly all in the same D maj/B harmonic minor area including secondary doms so that's okay. And, absolutely as you say, there's this circular effect which goes on and on so you never quite really know where you are. I suppose the ear tends to settle on that first F#7 most of all.

But I have to say there are a couple of places that seem a bit odd to me. I'm really not sure what that B7 right at the end is, going to GM7. Then there's the sudden introduction of those altered chords.

Anyway, I've done it again. It's not that slow but I'm not playing it double-time. I kept it diatonic at first then introduced various other sounds. I think they just about work. Sorry if it's a bit long.

Your version is definitely athletic and I hope you're all right, didn't pull anything :-)

**ragman1** · 07-26-2021, 04:04 AM

wzpgsr -

Nice, could have done with more of that (to see how you developed it).

**grahambop** · 07-26-2021, 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by ragman1

But I have to say there are a couple of places that seem a bit odd to me. I'm really not sure what that B7 right at the end is, going to GM7.

You can think of the B7 as if it is the V leading to Eminor (= G maj). I would probably play similar lines in either case.

**ragman1** · 07-26-2021, 04:53 AM

Oh, I know that, but G maj isn't necessarily a valid sub for Em just because it's relative to it.

**kris** · 07-26-2021, 05:30 AM

Look at this:

**Christian Miller** · 07-26-2021, 07:42 AM

It’s basically Autumn Leaves with a bit of flamenco innit

**mr. beaumont** · 07-26-2021, 09:49 AM

Had another go at it.

**ragman1** · 07-26-2021, 10:01 AM

Si, mucho mejor. All you need is a whole crowd of excited Asians.

And I reckon that's a new T-shirt :-)

**mr. beaumont** · 07-26-2021, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by ragman1

Si, mucho mejor. All you need is a whole crowd of excited Asians.

And I reckon that's a new T-shirt :-)

Thanks, and thanks to everyone for the nice birthday wishes last week as well!

Re: shirt-- its actually over a year old, but it "dissappeared" in my house soon after purchase, only to resurface last week in a storage bin of soccer equipment. Coaching starts again soon!

**ragman1** · 07-26-2021, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Thanks, and thanks to everyone for the nice birthday wishes last week as well!

Re: shirt-- its actually over a year old, but it "dissappeared" in my house soon after purchase, only to resurface last week in a storage bin of soccer equipment. Coaching starts again soon!

Must have still been in the packet! Very nice anyway. Coaching in this heat only sounds mildly enticing...

**John A.** · 07-26-2021, 11:27 AM

Anybody see this?

How Chick Corea Wrote '''Spain''' - The Atlantic

Ragman: I like the way you developed your understanding of the tune over the course of your versions. Last sounds best to me, the most like a complete performance.

Trips: I'd say you're about 80% of the way toward a really great solo there. The energy, time, and phrasing are really good, and there are some very cool ideas, but a few spots where you stumble over what to play and kind of slide into a right note rather than just hitting it. Probably just a matter of shedding it a bit more. As with a couple of other things you've done, I get the sense that you feel the time/feel a bit better with the straighter/latin/funky rhythms than the swing tunes, and it all just sounds/feels a bit better from the listener's chair when you do these.

Peterson: I dig the guitelele. I've got one of those and it's a lot of fun. Dig the "flamenco cheering section" you've got there, too, though their polyrhythms are a bit tricky to follow :

Otherwise, you're right on the changes and the form and it sounds good.

RPJazzguitar: Sounds great! Getting your inner Santana on there, and I dig it. Also, the audio quality seems like the best you've done so far, so whatever you did there, keep it up.

Jeff: I've gone back and forth between your electric and acoustic versions, and dig both. The acoustic has a kind of Tommy Emmnual-ish speed/energy that's a lot of fun. As usual, would love to have heard more. The electric has a real, dare I say it, fusion (in maybe the Steve Khan sense, rather than the Al Dimeola sense) vibe. Impressive continuity while talking to your kid. Mine's going on 16 and I still haven't got that down (less of a problem now that he's going on 16 and no longer speaks to adults unprompted

).

DocSteve: That sounds great, a real interpretation of the tune, very much in keeping with the Chick's intent of using the Concerto de Aranjuez as a launching point for new themes and improvisation.

Wzpgsr: Yeah, very cool. I like the way you're mixing phrase lengths and sliding inside and outside, and the tone is great. Could definitely have heard more of that, especially to get some development into an overall shape and story.

Overall, everybody sounds really good here, overall score no doubt boosted by our all taking a pass on the head

. If I have time, I may take another crack at it with an overdriven tone, 'cause I really like the effect those of you who did that got with it, and a little legato never hurt.

**ragman1** · 07-26-2021, 11:39 AM

Quite right, John, the understanding of it evolves, as it does with most of these tunes. Also, as you get more into it, it's easier to relax and just play it without the initial intensity. I keep telling myself I'm going to keep doing them till Wednesday and then only post the latest one. But it doesn't really work like that...

By the way, you're quite humorous on the quiet :-)

**ragman1** · 07-26-2021, 11:49 AM

Oh, just read the Chick Corea thing about 'Spain'. Interesting. There are no altered chords in the solo bit. I didn't really like the altered sounds on mine, I thought they spoiled it although there are lots we can put in.

**John A.** · 07-26-2021, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by ragman1

Oh, just read the Chick Corea thing about 'Spain'. Interesting. There are no altered chords in the solo bit. I didn't really like the altered sounds on mine, I thought they spoiled it although there are lots we can put in.

Interesting to see Chick's lead sheet in that article -- it doesn't include the solo section, so we don't really know whether he specifically intended any altered chords, there. In the head, it looks to me like he's using chord symbols to give a general indication of functional harmony, not to spell out the harmony fully (which, IMO, is how it ought to be). On the original recording, he plays altered chords on both the head and the blowing section, but not every time every voicing, and his comping is overall relatively sparse and much more about the harmonic rhythm. In general, I think it's safe to assume that all chords that function as dominants are subject to being altered during blowing sections, and the solos on the original are consistent with that thought.

**ragman1** · 07-26-2021, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by John A.

Interesting to see Chick's lead sheet in that article -- it doesn't include the solo section, so we don't really know whether he specifically intended any altered chords, there. In the head, it looks to me like he's using chord symbols to give a general indication of functional harmony, not to spell out the harmony fully (which, IMO, is how it ought to be). On the original recording, he plays altered chords on both the head and the blowing section, but not every time every voicing, and his comping is overall relatively sparse and much more about the harmonic rhythm. In general, I think it's safe to assume that all chords that function as dominants are subject to being altered during blowing sections, and the solos on the original are consistent with that thought.

I meant in the GM7 through to B7 section. That's in all those lead sheets it shows. He's also left out the two-sharps key sig. But he said in the article that they went through many versions because he 'began to tire' of the original before eventually going back to the original. So it's possible that what you're talking about was one the fancier efforts in between :-)

**rpjazzguitar** · 07-26-2021, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by John A.

Interesting to see Chick's lead sheet in that article -- it doesn't include the solo section, so we don't really know whether he specifically intended any altered chords, there. In the head, it looks to me like he's using chord symbols to give a general indication of functional harmony, not to spell out the harmony fully (which, IMO, is how it ought to be). On the original recording, he plays altered chords on both the head and the blowing section, but not every time every voicing, and his comping is overall relatively sparse and much more about the harmonic rhythm. In general, I think it's safe to assume that all chords that function as dominants are subject to being altered during blowing sections, and the solos on the original are consistent with that thought.

Good to see the handwritten original.

Em7 in bar three is written as a Dmajor triad; Em11 might be more accurate.

Bar 4, the F#7 has a B. He resolves it to A# in bar 6, so this is F#7sus to F#7, well, fragments thereof.

Elsewhere, he's got a D over F#7 (F#7b13) and, over C#7, he's leaning on D and E, both altered ninths.

To my ear, to take one example, that C#7 has to have an altered ninth to sound right, and, similarly, the F#7 needs the b13.

My guess is that the chord symbols might be what he outlined in the left hand (and wanted to hear in the bass) and he wrote the extensions on the staffs for the right hand. Or something like that.

**ragman1** · 07-26-2021, 12:55 PM

I was going to say that, that the melody implies altered sounds. But it needn't necessarily alter the chordal background. I haven't listened closely enough to any of the recordings to work that out.

And does it really matter that much? We always have this, that everything we do must be the same as so-and-so. Sometimes it matters, often it doesn't really. But Naima was a bit of a headache!

**John A.** · 07-26-2021, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar

Good to see the handwritten original.

Em7 in bar three is written as a Dmajor triad; Em11 might be more accurate.

Bar 4, the F#7 has a B. He resolves it to A# in bar 6, so this is F#7sus to F#7, well, fragments thereof.

Elsewhere, he's got a D over F#7 (F#7b13) and, over C#7, he's leaning on D and E, both altered ninths.

To my ear, to take one example, that C#7 has to have an altered ninth to sound right, and, similarly, the F#7 needs the b13.

My guess is that the chord symbols might be what he outlined in the left hand (and wanted to hear in the bass) and he wrote the extensions on the staffs for the right hand. Or something like that.

Yes, the chord symbols are probably just the right hand.

Originally Posted by ragman1

I meant in the GM7 through to B7 section. That's in all those lead sheets it shows. He's also left out the two-sharps key sig. But he said in the article that they went through many versions because he 'began to tire' of the original before eventually going back to the original. So it's possible that what you're talking about was one the fancier efforts in between :-)

In the recording, they solo over the GM7 -> B7 section, but play each chord twice as long as the in the head. If I had to guess, I'd guess that at the recording session, they decided to double it on the blowing section because it felt better to play longer over each chord. I think the original is pretty early in the tune's evolution, and he's referring to later efforts at varying the tune in live performance in that interview.

Originally Posted by ragman1

I was going to say that, that the melody implies altered sounds. But it needn't necessarily alter the chordal background. I haven't listened closely enough to any of the recordings to work that out.

And does it really matter that much? We always have this, that everything we do must be the same as so-and-so. Sometimes it matters, often it doesn't really. But Naima was a bit of a headache!

Sometimes there's a canonical way to play a tune and that's what everybody does at a jam (e.g., specific intros, endings, and shout choruses, particular harmonic rhythms and/or bass figures on the head, occasionally specific voicings). But I think most people treat lead sheets and recordings as a guide, not a bible, on most tunes. The original version of Spain (on Light as a Feather) is definitely worth a listen. The head definitely calls for being played a particular way, but the blowing sections are blowing sections not arrangements.