Using Wes style octaves - practice advice

[fep]

How to practice octaves...

Play the melodies in octaves to...

Jazz standards, yeah that's it, jazz standards. Maybe start with ballads.

[JimBobWay]

It's funny, octaves are just an interval, a prime interval at that. They are used all over in music and yet the guitar octave impact of Wes was so great that he just short of owns the interval on our instrument.

Monk doesn't even own the minor second! Just kidding; bako wrote a very thoughtful and wise post, I'm just a little sensitive about the commercialization of every aspect of existence these days. Wes himself always pointed anyone who asked back to his own influences (eg Django & Tal) - plus, a lot of your audience may have never heard (of) Wes. So play 'em when you feel 'em! My approach to octaves is mostly thumb & muted string (with a lot of nail). When I play them with more than a single string between it's thumb + whatever finger fits. As to approach, you've seen the gamut; mine is to slip octaves into my daily scales now & then, and transcribe & play masterworks. Own y'r own!

[itsall4you]

It depends how you start out and how long you've been doing it.

I started playing octaves back in the early sixties having just HEARD Wes doing it and before his first guitar book came out.

I had been playing octaves for a couple of years using index and fourth finger for EVERYTHING before I saw him at Ronnie Scott's club and realised that he was using different fingerings for different string sets. It was, by that time, quite natural for me so I've never changed it.

If you do it the way Wes did it then it will be quite natural for you too in about forty years (or less). He was the greatest ever, but what worked for him is not necessarily going to work for you.

Well, although it feels natural and it may work for you fine, you can clearly see the movement that the pinky has to make. This is naturally a more inefficient technique.. If you want maximum technical ability in octaves it's best to choose the fingering that is the most efficient. I'm not saying this because Wes played this way - this is just the law of nature (or whatever).

I too have switched from using the pinky for everything to changing. Within matter of days (probably 10 ~ 15 days) I could play cleaner than ever.

Of course what works for me might not work for everyone, but it is clearly more efficient just from a scientific point of view.

[Meggy]

It's funny, octaves are just an interval, a prime interval at that. They are used all over in music and yet the guitar octave impact of Wes was so great that he just short of owns the interval on our instrument.

That said there are many octave things done on guitar and other instruments.

George Benson inserted 4ths and 5ths in between sometimes and a tremolo like technique.

I remember learning a Steve Vai tune with a student that was reminiscent of the Hendrix double stop sound in songs like Angel and Little Wing. Anyway in his solo he did a lot of variations of broken octaves integrated with various slurs on one or both of the notes.

Funk bassists have gotten alot of mileage out of rhythmic patterns with broken octaves.

Boogie woogie piano left hand broken octave lines created a driving accompaniment.

Stanley Jordan uses his piano like tapping techniques and his symetrical tuning to play 2 handed lines in octaves.
In theory with octaves in each hand we could tap 4 octave lines within a limited range.

Everything played on the lower 4 courses of a 12 string guitar are octaves.

For power an orchestra plays tutti, unisons and multiple octaves to accentuate a line.

Harpists play octaves to increase the presence of a melody or a bass line.

We can insert other intervals in between and outside the octave.
Ex:
3rds- CEC//CCE//CEE
6ths- CAC//CCA//CAA

double 3rds- CECE (sound great but a bit awkward)

Sometimes big band 4 trumpets/4 trombones will play 4 part chords in octaves
(need 2 guitars for that one)

5 trumpets allowed for a 4 part chord plus an octave.

Pianist Red Garland had this wonderful chord melody thing he did with chords encased between the melody in octaves.

I have a study project lined up that I'm not yet ready to take on, with 4 note structures 2 notes encased in between an octave.
The project would be something like this. Pretending that this voicing family was the only game in town and playing tunes
using these structures. In real playing they would of course just be another option integrated after I gained enough dexterity.

Just brainstorming octave possibilities out loud on digital paper. Didn't intend to stray this far from Meggy's original question.

For what it's worth, I've been practicing them nice and slow, just plodding along in a slow groove on ballads or blues, or just 1/4 notes on something more upbeat. What's funny is, because when I switch from single-note to octaves I slow down and chill out a bit more, I find my improv jumps up a notch! I suppose I'm not playing 'pet licks', so it sounds fresher and more interesting to me.

I do have an advice on the technique of using octaves. - Many people use their index and the pinky when playing octaves.

This is fine on the first two set of strings but for the bottom two it's inefficient because you'll have to move your pinky back a fret when you change between strings.

The best thing to do is use your pinky for the top two sets but use the ring finger for the bottom two. This allows for more efficient and smoother string changes.

How to practice octaves...

Play the melodies in octaves to...

Jazz standards, yeah that's it, jazz standards. Maybe start with ballads.

Wow, I miss a day, and come back to find a wealth of riches about octaves! This really can be the most wonderful website sometimes. Too many responses to quote them all, but it's all terrific stuff and I sincerely thank all of you for posting your ideas. Cheers chaps!