-
The Difficult part of the tune is the beginning section with the quick cycling through the keys. After that the tune calms down and it gets actually fairly simple.
There are lots of chromatic pentatonic scales that work over the first section of the tune that make going through it quite a lot easier.
Augmented scales, any of the key center augmented scales create interesting tensions.
Work on the arpeggios and the tritone subs
If you want a real challenge, start working on 26-2 or Count down, way harder then Giant STeps
-
06-24-2008 09:38 PM
-
I have a cd with Bruce Foreman shredding on Countdown. It's humbling. I read an interview with Larry Coryell where he mentions that he first learned Giant Steps as a slow 6/8 tune and then brought it up to speed
-
Improvising on giant steps melodically is the tough part. The digitalpatterns arps etc should be a means to that end. Ditto for countdown or any tough sequence.
-
I have been more successful with Giant Steps by mostly sticking to the chord forms and playing diads or triads from the chord shapes. It is so easy to get lost trying to play single line solos, and it's so easy to fall into the standard 8th-note patterns, plus it helps you learn new chord locations.
-
Keep this in mind:
In the Giant Steps changes the beauty is mostly in the harmony and not necessarily in the melody. Coltrane was pretty much just sticking to arpeggios in his solo so that he could re-enforce the harmony. I think that this is probably the same reason why countdown worked so well, because he was implying a complex and beautiful harmony without a chordal instrument to back him up until at the end of the track, the rhythm section drives the harmony home to finish off the song properly.
Sure, it was played fast, but it wasn't that difficult to do, after all it was just arpeggios. This is why Giant Steps isn't really a showoff piece at all, I mean, it would just show off the harmony anyway.
If you want to be able to play it slower and more melodically I think you'd get the best results by just slowing the tempo down, but at that point I think the attention would be taken away from the harmony and the song would lose it's interest completely.
This is the reason why people like John Coltrane and Miles Davis eventually evolved into Modal Jazz. The soloist gets bored when it's faced with just playing arpeggios all the time, which is inevitable when you try and play quick bebop and post-bop standards like Giant Steps.
-
Write down your cycle of 4ths/5ths on a clock face and then draw a triangle in the middle a Maj3rd appart. It will join up to your original key. Each of these keys represent you new tonic key centre. In the case of Giant Steps G, B and Eb. Now pen the roman numeral above the chord on the chart you will notice the v, i's and ii, v, i's appear in front of you. Sure you have to be on the ball to change that fast. I've also worked out that out of all the 3 keys the 2nd of each key is the only note that dosn't appear in any of the other keys so you could mess about with those notes. I'm all talk as I have no one brave enoph to try it out with me yet. It might sound awful. Ha ha.
-
Tell him it's a song you don't approach until you're ready to do it on your own, otherwise it wastes too much time.
-
In the November issue of Just Jazz Guitar, in the review section, Wolf Marshall has either a book or dvd(can't remember) dedicated to Giant Steps.
-
a good thing to do is play the melody until you 'hear it' strongly. then add in another note so you're playing the melody note and say the third, 5th or 7th respectively. then substitute the melody note for another note and play it round a few times. rewriting the head using other chord tones is also helpful. i use to just blast over it with patterns and scales but its a bit of an unmusical way of doing it really. I live and learn though!
im currently getting inner urge, dolphin dance and very early prepared for a Masters performance and find that playing the melodies over and over really helps. targetting the chord tones is also very useful. this is all only supporting work to aid in being musical while playing the tune.
maybe try playing giant steps as a bossa a la metheny. i do it like that in a duo. doesn't smash casual listeners ears in as much and leaves more room for phrasing and articulation. for me anyway!
-
Examples from the extremely talented Mike Walker.
-
Jeff,
Here's my take on the tune...
For the 'tricky part' there are only 2 harmonic moves
V-I (D7-G, Bb7-Eb, F#7-B)
I-bIII7 (B-D7, G-Bb7, Eb-F#7)
The trick for V-I is to play more simply that you've become accustomed to on your bop tunes, no fancy Wes/Martino extensions and alterations, just simple V to simple I
for the other move, I take a look at both scales and note any possible common tones or half steps
B C# D# E F# G# A# B
B C. D. E F# G A. B
In the extent that I 'think' about anything while playing , thinking about B-Cmaj, B-Aminor B-Bminor, B-E minor B-F#dim can make things a little less patterny than the usual 1235 over B and D
If you live with the progression long enough, I think it's possible to start 'ear'-ing out little melodies like its a regular tune, and not a set of obligations to satisfy an exercise..
Best wishes for everyone's music!
PK
-
One thing that I found helpful is to divide the tune into sections.
B D G Bb is an unusual chord sequence. Quick and dirty, I suggest thinking B Bm Bm Bb. This much gets you in the ballpark. You might think Bm6 or Bo instead of Bb.
I'll return to the Eb to Am7 D7 for the moment. When I get back to it, I'll be throwing out all the iim's.
The next four chords are the same movement as the first four.
G Bb Eb F#.
Now, for the part I glossed over.
The Bb in the second bar becomes a V7 and leads to its I chord (Eb). That I chord drops a half step to D, which becomes the new V7. That V7 leads to its I chord, G, which begins the G Bb Eb F# sequence.
Then, the F# does the same thing. It leads to B in a V I. Then the B drops a half step to Bb7, which becomes the new V7 and leads to its I chord, the Eb, which in turn drops a half step, D becomes the new V7 and leads to G.
So, a good portion of the tune is the same move. 7th chord leads to its I chord, which drops a half step and becomes the new 7th chord.
It continues like that until the turnaround, which breaks the pattern.
-
Pat Metheny's approach of taking it down to about 80 bpm. Smart man.
-
Here's another weird one.
-
Examples of the incredibly talented Mike Walker playing exercises on giant Steps.
-
If you don’t like the tune, you’re going to be tempted to skip the “learning the patterns” part of shedding the tune. Don’t…
They help your ear actually hear your way through the tune. Once you can do that, you can play melodically over it without sounding like you skipped the learning the patterns part.
-
Re the ancient OP. This is my approach on Giant steps:
How to REALLY play Giant Steps
It’s nice to be able to drop a link and leave it at that haha
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Lol, I've come around on Steps over the years...I actually find it quite catchy. I think it's very much a real tune.
-
Oh, I just got rid of that bit. Thought it might upset somebody
So where the hell have you been? Out with it now!
-
He's gone again...
-
I can play this tune well enough but it bores me....
-
Hey Guy, thanks for posting this. His site https://www.practisin2play.com appears to be down. Do you know whether it's a temporary problem or gone forever?
Originally Posted by GuyBoden
Examples from the extremely talented Mike Walker.
-
Do we look small from all the way up there, Mick? Originally Posted by Mick-7
-
Unfortunately, almost every approach I've ever watched a video of or read about for Giant Steps just ends up sounding like a bunch of exercises rather than music. I think the supreme challenge of this song is to play it and make it sound musical.* Personally, I've never succeeded. Even when Coltrane plays it, it doesn't sound particularly musical to my ears. But we all define music differently, and somebody else may think it's the most wonderful melody they've ever heard.
All the horn players I've ever talked to about this song, specifically saxophonists, emphasize learning that 1235 pattern as being essential to play the song. Like a lot of Coltrane tunes, I think this song sits more easily on the saxophone, which does make it a good developmental exercise for those of us who don't play sax.
Here's a page which has a nicely laid out demonstration of the 1235 pattern, if you scroll down the page. As well as that, it has a helpful harmonic analysis of the tune, examples of Coltrane changes that pre-date Coltrane, ways to use Coltrane changes to re-harmonize standards. There's a lot packed on this webpage.
Giant Steps—A Guide to Coltrane Changes - Piano With Jonny
*Oh, there was some elderly trumpeter dude that had a bunch of videos on YouTube years back. I can't remember his name, Grampa Bob or something like that. He advocated pentatonic pairs or something as a way to get through jazz tunes. His demonstration on Giant Steps was actually pretty fluent.
-
Yes, but fortunately I have a good pair of binoculars.... seriously, I was not bragging, I find this tune to be a complete bore, no matter who plays it. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
Yes, that's how I feel about it, and at a workshop, Joe Pass admitted he didn't like the tune, he only played it because people had requested it. Originally Posted by Cunamara
Reply With Quote
Delete
Today, 03:21 AM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos